Transmisogyny in women’s shelters.

[Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails]

A year-long investigation has concluded a “cohort of powerful feminists” is deliberately freezing out transwomen from accessing services for domestic violence victims.

Didn’t realise we had so much power

gal-dem.com/transphobia-sexual-violence-sound-like-a-man-hang-up-vawg-investigation/

@PotholeParadies

Well, at least two of us 'orrid MNers have donated to jj's suggested beneficiary? Has anyone asked Emma Watson or Jameela Jamil to throw their star power behind this?

Which is funny considering the thread is about female refuges and one poster has twisted the entire thread and managed to pressure the women on here to donate to a transgender charity. No judgment on the donators of course as everyone is entitled to spend their money as they please, and a transgender refuge is definitely a cause worth supporting (as long as it means female refuges are kept single sex). I just find it interesting how the poster keeps coming back and posting question after question, bouncing off any responses they get, never actually answering questions or taking part in a conversation. Everything about this is very entitled.

@Biscuitsanddoombar

The new chief executive of women’s aid is farah Nazeer formerly of action “no such thing as a female body” aid www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3968781-Action-Aid-no-such-thing-as-a-biological-female

So I won’t be holding out much hope that she’ll be much use at safeguarding single sex spaces

Jesus this is sickening. How far is all this going to go before some sort of uprising? I'm so sick of it.

I'll spend my money as I wish, and it will always be primarily in the service of other women. I make no apology or justification for that at all.
Good luck with your campaign to secure government funding for the refuge for TW. It's nothing to do with me or women's rights, so I have no opinion whatsoever.

"Male shelters don't admit trans women."

I'd like to see evidence for that statement.

@AlfonsoTheSensible

"Male shelters don't admit trans women."

I'd like to see evidence for that statement.

I would also but that poster doesn't seem to engage in any meaningful way unfortunately.

We should all donate according to our desires. But now I've got a little list of prominent TRAs, and companies that wave the trans flag around,who have never ever mentioned the concept of specialist refuge services in general or fundraising for this charity in particular.

We should all be asking them why their focus is on castigating feminists instead.

Anyone feel like tweeting some of those folks and asking them to put their pride-flag-waving-hands in their bank accounts for the Outside Project?

I'll make a donation to NIA- Ending Violence Against Women and Girls niaendingviolence.org.uk/

and
Women at the Well if it takes off on twitter.
watw.org.uk/

Well, quite, blabla.

And Tinsel's intervention seems to have gone unnoticed. (I think she may have hidden the thread, but it was a very worthwhile point to make, Tinsel. Many people on this thread are assuming that transwomen are fleeing male violence, but in fact a transwoman who says "my spouse abused me" may well be talking about something else entirely.)

I've made a small donation to jj's suggested cause. It's not going to be a priority for me as I do centre women's causes in my regular donating, & I'm sure Stonewall have far deeper pockets than I do, but it seemed to be a good initiative so I was happy to donate as a one off.

I'm not reading the report because it will make me too angry, but I can guess who it is being implied are the perpetrators of domestic abuse in these cases- trans widows like me who refused to accept their husband's gender identity.

Women like the women on the 4 trans widows threads on this board, and women like these:

<a class="break-all" href="http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.transwidowsvoices.org/our-voices" target="_blank">http://go.mumsnet.com/?xs=1&id=470X1554755&url=www.transwidowsvoices.org/our-voices Have a read of our stories.

Read this series of articles by Dr Em

https://uncommongroundmedia.com/domestic-abuse-related-to-late-transitioning-partners-part-i-coercive-control/

And then decide how likely it is that women like us are abuse perpetrators and that our husbands need to flee from us and be protected.

Great post Tinsel

If you can't differentiate between the penis that did you wrong and the penis of some poor person just going about her life, then the issue is with you, not with the trans woman accessing services.

How do you tell?

This is the Majingilane coalition on territorial patrol.

If I told you three of them were friendly to humans, but the fourth one would attack you, and you can’t tell which is which, are you going to get out of the car? What if you’ve been mauled by a lion previously? Are you going to feel safe if there's just one lion on the road?

Of course not; you can’t tell by looking which are the safe lions. You’re going to stay in the car.

What if you walked into a room and there was a lion in it? Might be one of the friendly lions, but you can’t tell, so of course you feel in danger.

If any of us could easily identify the men who would hurt us, many of us could have avoided being hurt.

Do you think we should differentiate between the lion that ate my neighbours and the lion that didn't or would you take care around all lions ?

I expect the later . The decision about when to treat all instances of something with caution is based on a risk assessment .

Sometimes that can be flawed and people react too negatively. To fix that you need to show them that their risk assessment is flawed. You need to show the person who is afraid that they are wrong . You don't talk about how the lion gets hurt too. You don't talk about how kind this lion is . You talk about how it's proven that lions are no more dangerous than small pussy cats. But you can't because it isn't true

You clearly don't see people with penis in general as dangerous. Women often do. Even if the lion had been trained you would still be careful .

If only it was possible to tell who would use their penis to hurt me, and who wouldn't.
Which men would hurt me and which wouldn't.
Which men would grab at my body, and which wouldn't.

I've lost count of the number of people who touched my body without my consent. I can remember exactly how many of them were women though.

I work in a frontline women’s organisation tackling violence against women and I’m happy that the organisation I work for is fully inclusive of trans women. Perhaps you should spend a bit less time smugly patting yourself on the back for how inclusive you are and a bit more time remembering that the organisation you work for is supposed to be working to support women and children who have suffered abuse largely at the hands of men. Are they all as happy as you? Or are they getting the message that if they don’t like it, they can take their bigotry back to their abuser? I really hope that you’re tucked away in a back office somewhere and they don’t let you anywhere near vulnerable women.

The people who work there know exactly what they are facing and can best judge vulnerability and from whom....and indeed any risk of a trigger. The myth of it being some sort of trans predator is just off. It doesnt help the vulnerable women who actually need these services, versus those on here who pontificate on subjects they really know little on. The people who work there are facing fuck all. They get to put their coats on at the end of a shift and go home in safety. And the idea that they are better placed to identify potential triggers than anyone else is laughable. What doesn’t help vulnerable women is people like you. You are so absorbed in your views that you simply cannot get your head around the concept that simply being near a biological male is enough to be triggered. Any biological male. It makes no difference even if it’s a perfectly lovely, harmless, would never hurt a fly in a million years trans person who has experienced the same abuse. And women need that safe, single sex space so that they can function properly when they go back out to a world where biological men are everywhere.

The sheer arrogance displayed by you two is simply breathtaking. If either of you have ever experienced anything like the experiences of the women who need these spaces then you should be fucking ashamed of yourselves for thinking that entitles you to give away their rights to a single sex space or decide that you know better than they do what will frighten or trigger them. If you haven’t had these experiences then let me make it very clear to you that you have no fucking idea how abused women and children feel. It doesn’t matter how many refuges you’ve visited or how many women you’ve spoken to. You don’t have a clue how terrifying it is. The fact that strong, intelligent women on here, the FWR boards and elsewhere are willing and able to recognise that this isn’t right and are able to speak up when women in these situations may only have the ability to concentrate on getting through the next ten minutes is bloody wonderful. How dare you try to belittle their attempts to protect women..

A little empathy ladies...goes a long way.... abuse is abuse. Full stop Did you seriously just tell ‘ladies’ to shut up and be kind?

A little empathy goes a long way

But not as far as woman

If you can't differentiate between the penis that did you wrong and the penis of some poor person just going about her life

No such thing as 'her penis'. That is just gaslighting rape survivors. On a thread about women's refuges.

sn0tnose
Excellent post 👏

Snotnose well said.

A little empathy ladies...goes a long way

Try a little towards females. Maybe reflect on why you think empathy is something female people give to male people, and is a one way, non reciprocal thing owed by females. And as to whether someone who has so little respect or sense of equal values for females as to their male clients should really be working with vulnerable women.

In fact let me rephrase that: it isn't lack of respect or lack of equal values, it's plain flat out prejudice.

Someone openly, proudly prejudiced against females, working with vulnerable women.

No such thing as 'her penis'.

Well said. Every penis goes with a body that has a Y chromosome and is therefore male.

The new chief executive of women’s aid is farah Nazeer formerly of action “no such thing as a female body” aid

Holy shit.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

The new chief executive of women’s aid is farah Nazeer formerly of action “no such thing as a female body” aid

Holy shit.

Welcome to another round of "Third sector musical chairs."

@CaraDuneRedux

Well, quite, blabla.

And Tinsel's intervention seems to have gone unnoticed. (I think she may have hidden the thread, but it was a very worthwhile point to make, Tinsel. Many people on this thread are assuming that transwomen are fleeing male violence, but in fact a transwoman who says "my spouse abused me" may well be talking about something else entirely.)

I haven't hidden the thread I've just been shaking my head as in my view you're all being led down the garden path. You're debating this on the wrong terms.

Organisations such as Stonewall and Scottish Trans Alliance include refusing to affirm gender identity as domestic abuse. Who will be the perpetrators of this? Trans Widows and parents of transitioners.

Who benefits from conflating narcissistic injury with abuse? Are they some people who might have different motives for liking to consider themselves abused women? What is the motivation for grossly exaggerating abuse statistics? Who is more likely the be the abuser, the trans widow or the transitioner?

These are the questions which should be being asked rather than arguing with an individual that trans women should have their own refuges to protect them from the evil trans widows.

These are the questions which should be being asked rather than arguing with an individual that trans women should have their own refuges to protect them from the evil trans widows.

YY, that's an important point. I must admit I was thinking in terms of gay male relationships in terms of needing refuge but you're quite right Tinsel.

I was also thinking in the same terms.

I haven't hidden the thread I've just been shaking my head as in my view you're all being led down the garden path. You're debating this on the wrong terms. My thanks, I am reframing my thought as I type!

You are right!