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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Transmisogyny in women’s shelters.

349 replies

Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails · 02/02/2021 23:36

A year-long investigation has concluded a “cohort of powerful feminists” is deliberately freezing out transwomen from accessing services for domestic violence victims.

Didn’t realise we had so much power Hmm

gal-dem.com/transphobia-sexual-violence-sound-like-a-man-hang-up-vawg-investigation/

OP posts:
PotholeParadies · 03/02/2021 18:04

Well, perhaps Pink News could do some fundraising.

The Manchester Evening News ran a story promoting a crowdfunder for one single trans person's double mastectomy, so a couple of stories for a shelter offering specialised support to LGBT+ clients seems within PN's remit.

AccidentallyOnPurpose · 03/02/2021 18:05

No issues from me.

What I have an issue with is female spaces being targeted and the importance of sex segregation in such spaces being ignored and ridiculed.Females having their needs ignored, their rights stripped and their spaces taken away.

Viviennemary · 03/02/2021 18:07

There does seem to be a bit of a vendetta against trans people from (cough) certain quarters.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 03/02/2021 18:08

Hang on. You say that is not ok for a transwoman to go to an all male environment because... males. Yet you think it's ok for women to go to a unisex environment because, well there are males but it's only women and they don't matter to you.

Got it in one, Midgedude.

DaisiesandButtercups · 03/02/2021 18:14

Absolutely there should be specialist help for trans people in the form of counselling and refuges funded by the state!

Maybe those other people you spoke to were Tories and believe in privatisation full stop.

Datun · 03/02/2021 18:16

@thinkingaboutLangCleg

Hang on. You say that is not ok for a transwoman to go to an all male environment because... males. Yet you think it's ok for women to go to a unisex environment because, well there are males but it's only women and they don't matter to you.

Got it in one, Midgedude.

Well, you see, the thing is, JJ grew up with women who, when rendered uncomfortable by finding unwanted men in their private space were "more than capable of telling a creepy man to fuck off up to and including thowing a punch"
thinkingaboutLangCleg · 03/02/2021 18:17

Really good questions being raised here. Why are wealthy organisations like Stonewall not putting money into facilities for transpeople? Why are generous TW volunteers not putting their time and energy into services needed by other TW?

It couldn't be because they want to enforce the presence of TW in single-sex facilities for women who are desperate and vulnerable, could it?

HoldontoOneMoreDay · 03/02/2021 18:34

I've donated, I've had a good week. Happy to help.

PotholeParadies · 03/02/2021 18:35

Why is that Stonewall tweets more about getting transwomen into women's rugby, than about providing specialised support service for transwomen who have experienced domestic violence from a male partner?

Musthavesbackagain · 03/02/2021 18:35

JJ - have a day off, son.

Datun · 03/02/2021 18:42

@PotholeParadies

Why is that Stonewall tweets more about getting transwomen into women's rugby, than about providing specialised support service for transwomen who have experienced domestic violence from a male partner?
Have they ever tweeted about providing refuges for transwomen?

If, as JJ seems to imply, the lack of provision is a serious problem, why haven't they done that?

PotholeParadies · 03/02/2021 18:55

Never, that I've seen, but absence of evidence isn't evidence of absence.

I'm open to the possibility it has happened!

JustTurtlesAllTheWayDown · 03/02/2021 19:07

Out of interest how would you feel about a trans refuge being established and being given tax payer funding? I suspect there would be outrage from many GC people given that this funding is so badly needed by the VAWG sector.

I'd be more than happy for a trans refuge to be established and get funding. i'd even be happy to donate myself.
If you bothered to read the full thread, you'll find that a good number of us have already said we'd support it on this very thread.
If you genuinely think that GC people be outraged at trans people having access to services, then you have no idea what the GC position actually is and are just regurgitating straw men you picked up from twitter.
To quote JK Rowling I respect every trans person’s right to live any way that feels authentic and comfortable to them. I’d march with you if you were discriminated against on the basis of being trans.
No one is trying to stop trans people from having access to refuges or rape crisis centres; we're objecting to substantial barriers being put in place that will stop deeply traumatised women and children from accessing them.

PotholeParadies · 03/02/2021 19:16

Well, at least two of us 'orrid MNers have donated to jj's suggested beneficiary? Has anyone asked Emma Watson or Jameela Jamil to throw their star power behind this?

Justhadathought · 03/02/2021 19:35

It isn't the case of a desperate provision with a bed where a bed happens to be, this is a deliberate and intentional agenda to end female only provision for political and ideological reasons. That needs facing and addressing

This is the crux of the issue. It is ideological.

Given the sheer amount of momentum behind the trans movement so much more could have been achieved by now - if only this ideological imperative wasn't the case. This considerable drive and energy has been directed, instead, towards the colonisation of women's spaces, rather than towards creating places & spaces for trans people.

Justhadathought · 03/02/2021 19:38

Out of interest how would you feel about a trans refuge being established and being given tax payer funding? I suspect there would be outrage from many GC people given that this funding is so badly needed by the VAWG sector

I can't imagine many objecting, if the funding was proportionate and not at the expense of women's services.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2021 19:38

There does seem to be a bit of a vendetta against trans people from (cough) certain quarters.

Nope. Just support for women's rights to female spaces when we need them. Nothing to do with whether people are trans.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 03/02/2021 19:39

I can't imagine many objecting, if the funding was proportionate and not at the expense of women's services.

No, exactly. I certainly don't object.

Justhadathought · 03/02/2021 19:42

Two women, including you have said they would support it. And I ask because I've discussed this elsewhere with GC people who said absolutely not, any funding must come from private sector donations and I wondered if that attitude was prevalent here

I wouldn't contribute to funding that, in the same way I don't contribute to funding many/most campaigns. People, naturally, tend to contribute funds to causes which particularly resonate with them.

Why would you expect women to contribute, necessarily, to funding a service for another group? Some might feel compelled to, but most probably not. Surely you can't think that this might be the price women must pay to keep their single sex services?

SetYourselfOnFire · 03/02/2021 19:44

Transmisogyny doesn't exist. There is plenty of money to build trans-only or inclusive shelters in addition to women-only. Activists don't want them, because they don't actually give a shit about helping anyone.

CharlieParley · 03/02/2021 20:02

@SirenSays

I'm confused why people assume I have no trauma. I'm a survivor with severe CPTSD. You don't typically live in these shelters because life is going swimmingly... We aren't talking about men presenting as men in female spaces. We're talking about transwomen presenting as women and I know several transpeople who pass and haven't been clocked. So to me, they'd just be another service user, and that's not really any of my business.
That's sadly not correct.

Where organisations are fully trans-inclusive, there is increasingly no gate-keeping of the kind you suggest (males who "present as women" or who "pass"). Such gate-keeping is considered exclusionary and often labelled transphobic. As is the assumption that all males who identify as trans suffer from gender dysphoria or wish to transition in any way.

The minimum threshold for inclusion of males in the female-only therapeutic environment is therefore frequently a mere verbal statement of identity. No changes required.

(FAOD that's males presenting as men accepted into the space as women. Women neither informed nor consulted.)

And we're not assuming you have suffered no trauma, but that your trauma is different from ours. I'm hypervigilant. Found out not too long ago that my lizard brain (my amygdala) is now running so hot that I don't even need to see or hear someone speak or see them to know whether they're male or female when they are behind me and stepping closer. I was rather happy about that, too, coz when the guy exploded, I kept myself in check. Because I was already on guard. But what that also means is that I cannot reach a state from which recovery is possible in the presence of males.

So, I accept that you are fine sharing with males when accessing VAWG sector services. Do you accept that I am not?

blablasmthsmth · 03/02/2021 20:50

Male shelters don't admit trans women.

Really? So where's the outrage at male service providers discriminating against potential service users (of the correct sex) based on their gender identity?? Where are the angry hoards demanding rightful access or calling for them to be defunded?
Why is that shit reserved for female refuges who rightfully uphold vulnerable women's single sex spaces, instead of the male refuges who are not admitting the vulnerable males that they are set up to support?

If that is true, they are the ones who are discriminating against TW solely based on their gender identity, and they should be challenged for it.

Soontobe60 · 03/02/2021 20:51

If you can't differentiate between the penis that did you wrong and the penis of some poor person just going about her life, then the issue is with you, not with the trans woman accessing services
@SweetPetrichor
Did you really say this? Really? If so, then you clearly have absolutely no idea the effect of rape can have on a person.
‘’’penis of some poor person going about her life...” ? No matter how often anyone says it, a person born male is NEVER female.

thinkingaboutLangCleg · 03/02/2021 21:03

That Daily Mail story quotes Katie Ghose of Women’s Aid saying in 2018 “'Women's Aid member services assess every survivor, including trans women, on a case by case basis in order to best respond to their needs. Our member services tell us that they are already supporting trans women in accordance with the Equality Act in refuges.'

She must know that the Equality Act specifically allows certain services to remain single-sex, not single-gender.

Biscuitsanddoombar · 03/02/2021 21:20

The new chief executive of women’s aid is farah Nazeer formerly of action “no such thing as a female body” aid www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3968781-Action-Aid-no-such-thing-as-a-biological-female

So I won’t be holding out much hope that she’ll be much use at safeguarding single sex spaces