Transmisogyny in women’s shelters.

[Whatdoyoudowhendemocracyfails]

A year-long investigation has concluded a “cohort of powerful feminists” is deliberately freezing out transwomen from accessing services for domestic violence victims.

Didn’t realise we had so much power

gal-dem.com/transphobia-sexual-violence-sound-like-a-man-hang-up-vawg-investigation/

The refuges I work with have community houses in the next village or town. Men can use these and never go to the actual refuge (the staff go to them). They even allow pets so are wonderful.

Transmisogyny. That word just doesn't work the way trans ideologists want it to. Why does the word transphobia not suffice? Surely bringing in the "gyn' part of the word instantly makes one think of a female sexed person, regardless of identity?

”The entire situation is, says Cara English, a “degradation”.
“The fact we’re still in a position when we’re actively having to humanise trans women and trans people to services that would seek to exclude us, in order to get into places that we should have the right to access… this is just an obscene position to be in,” she adds.

Women were not gifted these services and shelters. They didn’t appear out of a clear blue sky. Women fought tooth and nail for them, and raised the money ourselves.

Literally what is to stop an abusive husband turning up at a shelter and claiming he's now a woman to access his partner?

Call me dense, but I thought a lot of shelters had a broad "no access for males" rule as a safeguarding measure. Not just for as users of the service, but in any way. No males under any pretext, as there's too much risk of an abuser gaining access somehow.

Is this no longer the case?

[insert book spoiler tag here]

I remember reading Rose Madder by Stephen King (from 1995), which had an abused woman and a woman's shelter at its core, and that being female-only was ultimately significant to the plot - a lot of it was about the abusive husband's attempts to infiltrate the shelter, and failing that, its fundraising fair.

In 2021 could Norman just walk up to the front door and demand entry, skipping a number of chapters?

That’s the concern, necessary. Self-ID means Norman doesn’t have to make any medical or hormonal changes, or shave Norman’s beard, to claim womanhood and the right to access a shelter.

TRAs will say it never happens.

allcatsarebeautuful

I'm a survivor. I've not needed a shelter but have accessed other services in the past. I'm telling you I would avoid any situation where I was unable to ensure I was seen by a female person. I would not have the guts to complain because I would experience the abuse of trust by the service provider as abusive gaslighting and, frankly, terrifying. I'm now a pretty privileged person, able to go about my life avoiding being trapped in spaces with males (of any gender ID). The poor women who have nowhere else to turn to, who can't just avoid shelters like yours. Having decisions over their personal boundaries and safety taken by people like you. In your position of power. Who refuse to look at statistics and talk to the actual people who you profess to help

Call me dense, but I thought a lot of shelters had a broad "no access for males" rule as a safeguarding measure. Not just for as users of the service, but in any way. No males under any pretext, as there's too much risk of an abuser gaining access somehow.

Is this no longer the case?

No access for males, unless they say they are women. No transition necessary. Then we must fall over ourselves to believe they are what they say they are and if any female DV victim has a problem with sharing facilities (including a bedroom) with a stranger with a penis, she's a transphobic bigot who can be chucked out of the shelter.

This is a case of the middle classes 'knowing' what;s best for women in desperate circumstances. Groups of women in these circumstances are going to find the strength of the 'pack'. No matter how much the chattering classes want to think we are all wonderfully woke, when they come up against reality, they need to re-think.

Shelters for transpeople please

No access for males, unless they say they are women. No transition necessary.

Actually then, presumably this must extend generally, not just to service users.

If Rachel McKinnon turns up as a DIY contractor (a new sideline, honest to god), Rachel has to be let in?

This is a case of the middle classes 'knowing' what;s best for women in desperate circumstances.

Not just women. This is the whole problem of the current Left in a nutshell. It's been hijacked by middle class university graduates on an evangelical mission to "educate" the people who have more direct experience about the grittiness of real life than they will ever have.

think what this investigation shows is shocking and sad. I work in a frontline women’s organisation tackling violence against women and I’m happy that the organisation I work for is fully inclusive of trans women.

I think it's more shocking and sad that women traumatised by male violence are denied a female only space when they have consistently said they need one to recover in.

Not one of these agenda-driven politically point scoring TRA surveys ever bothers to take this into consideration. Those women are pawns. It's pretty immoral.

@NecessaryScene1

No access for males, unless they say they are women. No transition necessary.

Actually then, presumably this must extend generally, not just to service users.

If Rachel McKinnon turns up as a DIY contractor (a new sideline, honest to god), Rachel has to be let in?

Seriously? That’s just taking the piss. How dare they.

Staff-centred services don't necessarily make good services for the service users.

This. It's about the users, not the staff and their personal views.

(Some on a certain other side have suggested McKinnon might be going for a Yaniv here - Friendly Fox Remodelling's ad suggests you are hiring a female contractor, and the only photo is a stock photo of a real woman. Would McKinnon sue anyone who didn't feel comfortable letting a male into their premises? Can a shelter insist on female contractors?)

"I think what this investigation shows is shocking and sad. I work in a frontline women’s organisation tackling violence against women and I’m happy that the organisation I work for is fully inclusive of trans women."

Let's do that thing where we turn off the gaslight words: "I work in a frontline women’s organisation tackling violence against women and I’m happy that the organisation I work for is fully inclusive of men."

Transmisogyny. That word just doesn't work the way trans ideologists want it to. Why does the word transphobia not suffice? Surely bringing in the "gyn' part of the word instantly makes one think of a female sexed person, regardless of identity?

There's only one type of "trans misogyny" and that's that of many TRAs towards women.

I’m happy that the organisation I work for is fully inclusive of men

That's my other question. Are they? Or does the man have to say "I'm a woman".

If I'm a man and I want in, and you're letting other men in, are you allowed to discriminate against me if I don't say the magic words?

I'm not sure that's legal. There are sex-based exemptions, permitting single-sex service, but I'm not sure you can refuse to let me in because of my "gender identity" (or lack of).

I read that piece last night.

Pious, smug crap that doesn't give a shiny shit about the needs and feelings of actual, abused and traumatised women.

I divide my scorn equally between 'Cara', if she exists, and the writer.

@BrassicaRabbit, well said. Thanks for sharing that and glad you are in better place now. I completely agree, what about all the traumatised women with nowhere to turn to? I do think some people lack empathy for women as survivors of male violence and lack understanding of the lasting and devastating effects of trauma, or else they would never so casually give away spaces such as rape crisis shelters, or prisons, that house such vulnerable women. I agree with PP I would be happy to sign petitions and contribute to equivalent shelters for transwomen.

I worked for many years with women and girls who had experienced domestic abuse and sexual violence almost without exception at the hands of men, a refugee or a drop in centre is their safe space FFS! If you've been repeatedly raped the last thing you need is a penis in the vicinity.
I now work in the criminal justice system and self ID is causing issues within the female estate, they are being kept in isolation which requires a huge amount of resource which should be directed to the female prison population, a fair proportion have been convicted for offences against women, some we believe after trying to escape the risk towards them within the male estate due to the nature of their crimes (some terror related). Our justice system is already geared towards men and this just impacts some of the precious provision we do have for women.
Our local probation service have women only reporting at a different location because they recognise the trauma experienced by most of the women at the hands of men. They already co fund one women's resource centre inclusive of refuge, education centre and drop in and are fundraising for another. Luckily the MOJ and HMPPS are on board with this and with segregating prisoners by sex. We assess and manage risk day in day out, so I think it says a lot that this is the stance taken in my industry.

Vulnerable women and children need to have shelters free of men, no matter how these men identify. TRAs could put their resources and energy into creating shelters for trans people, but no, they’d rather insist on invading women’s spaces. Is the agenda safety or validation? I think we can see the proof.

I read that piece when it first came out and am still trying to process it - there is so much in there that I just don't recognise.

1. heavy breathers and prank phone calls are a daily occurrence on almost any female-oriented helpline so of course staff routinely hang up on men. They are tying up the phone lines and stopping women getting through.

2. I worked in a refuge a good few years ago and everything about it was secret. When we took the children to the park we had one member of staff on spotting duty in case an abusive father tried to snatch them. We never went to the same place every day. We took security seriously. Volunteers were sent home for divulging the address ffs. There are huge security risks in shelters - I'm not even going to call them safeguarding concerns - and these come from men. Men as a class are not welcome in shelters and this informs everything that the staff do.

3. the thing about the refuge movement is that it is a women's movement. Women fought and fundraised for shelters. Part of that included creating feminist spaces that didn't replicate patriarchal structures. Now sometimes this is a PITA because there's a different way of making decisions, for example - it can be tiring. But these spaces are different. That's why older staff are cautious about change (as well as safety concerns above). That's why older staff will always put women first.

4. I can't bear the way this 'debate' is pitting older feminists against younger feminists. The minute we stop listening to older women, we may as well hand the car keys over to the patriarchy because we are doing its job for it. This goes for older feminists too mind you.

I'm so depressed and so tired.

I don't doubt that there will be TW who need to seek refuge in an abuse shelter. But seeing as TW are not female and therefore any trauma they may have experienced cannot be the same as that suffered by women, surely services specifically tailored to the needs of TW seeking refuge would be a better situation?

I can’t find the link for the story but I remember reading about the teenage rape victim (14 I think) whose mother was trying to help her access trauma support but the only counsellor she was offered was born male and self identified as a female.

The girl couldn’t share her trauma with a male person so couldn’t access any support. This may be in the area of Scotland served by the centre that Mridhul manages. Being legally and physically male Mridhul clearly has zero understanding of the needs of women and actually posted on Twitter a violent and threatening image directed at women who don’t agree with him.

btw misogyny is male hatred of women, so why is it being used in this context? I wonder if this is the way in for MtF transitioners to take over the word misogyny, which they will want/need in their arguments. I bloody wish someone would educate them