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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Humza Yousaf and Scottish Hate Crime Bill

240 replies

Pinkfreesias · 01/02/2021 18:51

Humza Yousaf, the Scottish Justice Secretary, has just tweeted that the recent amendments tabled on the Freedom Of Expression (Hate Crime) Bill will not now be moved on. Hugely disappointing for women speaking out might still be labelled hate criminals here in Scotland. And I can't help wondering if it's somehow linked to Joanna Cherry's sacking.

mobile.twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1356299644553322497

OP posts:
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CaraDuneRedux · 05/02/2021 10:18

Yeah I think the best of vipers failed to get the memo about the importance of love bombing. Especially the denizens of AIBU.

MichelleofzeResistance · 05/02/2021 10:33

The thing about that word is that there's an actual definition and list of characteristics, such as not being allowed to leave, shunning for going even slightly off message, that kind of thing. There is a set list, this is a testable thing.

Words don't just mean whatever you'd like them to mean. It's like a child, throwing around a word that sounds powerful in the hope of getting their own way.

WouldBeGood · 05/02/2021 11:03

Mumsnet doesn’t have a party training college unlike the SNP

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2021 11:45

This is the most useful definition I've found, I think - it details the mechanisms behind most features (taken from the CIC website):

The Cult Information Centre (CIC) defines a cult as a group having all of the following five characteristics:

It uses psychological coercion to recruit, indoctrinate and retain its members
It forms an elitist totalitarian society.
Its founder leader is self-appointed, dogmatic, messianic, not accountable and has charisma.
It believes the end justifies the means in order to solicit funds and recruit people.
Its wealth does not benefit its members or society.
Justhadathought · 05/02/2021 11:47

Equality of condition, though it is certainly a basic requirement for justice, is nevertheless among the greatest and most uncertain ventures of modern mankind. The more equal conditions are, the less explanation there is for the differences that actually exist between people; and thus all the more unequal do individuals and groups become

The most striking difference between ancient and modern sophists is that the ancients were satisfied with a passing victory of the argument at the expense of truth, whereas the moderns want a more lasting victory at the expense of reality

Terror becomes total when it becomes independent of all opposition; it rules supreme when nobody any longer stands in its way. If lawfulness is the essence of non-tyrannical government and lawlessness is the essence of tyranny, then terror is the essence of totalitarian domination

Hannah Arendt ( The Origins of Totalitarianism)

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2021 11:47

This, from the same website, is also useful, on Mind Control:

cultinformation.org.uk/question_what-is-mind-control.html

Mind Control techniques include:

Hypnosis
Inducing a state of high suggestibility by hypnosis, often thinly disguised as relaxation or meditation.

Peer Group Pressure
Suppressing doubt and resistance to new ideas by exploiting the need to belong.

Love Bombing
Creating a sense of family and belonging through hugging, kissing, touching and flattery.

Rejection of Old Values
Accelerating acceptance of new life style by constantly denouncing former values and beliefs.

Confusing Doctrine
Encouraging blind acceptance and rejection of logic through complex lectures on an incomprehensible doctrine.

Metacommunication
Implanting subliminal messages by stressing certain key words or phrases in long, confusing lectures.

Removal of Privacy
Achieving loss of ability to evaluate logically by preventing private contemplation.

Time Sense Deprivation
Destroying ability to evaluate information, personal reactions, and body functions in relation to passage of time by removing all clocks and watches.

Disinhibition
Encouraging child-like obedience by orchestrating child-like behaviour.

Uncompromising Rules
Inducing regression and disorientation by soliciting agreement to seemingly simple rules which regulate mealtimes, bathroom breaks and use of medications.

Verbal Abuse
Desensitizing through bombardment with foul and abusive language.

Sleep Deprivation and Fatigue
Creating disorientation and vulnerability by prolonging mental an physical activity and withholding adequate rest and sleep.

Dress Codes
Removing individuality by demanding conformity to the group dress code.

Chanting and Singing
Eliminating non-cult ideas through prolonged group repetition of mind-narrowing chants or phrases.

Confession
Encouraging the destruction of individual ego through confession of personal weaknesses and innermost feelings of doubt.

Financial Commitment
Achieving increased dependence on the group by burning bridges to the past, through the donation of assets.

Finger Pointing
Creating a false sense of righteousness by pointing to the shortcomings of the outside world and other cults.

Flaunting Hierarchy
Promoting acceptance of cult authority by promising advancement, power and salvation.

Isolation
Inducing loss of reality by physical separation from family, friends, society and rational references.

Controlled Approval
Maintaining vulnerability and confusion by alternately rewarding and punishing similar actions.

Change of Diet
Creating disorientation and increased susceptibility to emotional arousal by depriving the nervous system of necessary nutrients through the use of special diets and/or fasting.

Games
Inducing dependence on the group by introducing games with obscure rules.

No Questions
Accomplishing automatic acceptance of beliefs by discouraging questions.

Guilt
Reinforcing the need for salvation by exaggerating the sins of the former lifestyles.

Fear
Maintaining loyalty and obedience to the group by threatening soul, life or limb for the slightest negative thought, word or deed.

Replacement of Relationships
Destroying pre-cult families by arranging cult marriages and families.

Some of the above techniques used in isolation are not necessarily harmful in and of themselves. However, in a psychologically coercive cult environment, they are usually used en masse, in extreme ways and for prolonged periods of time.

ArabellaScott · 05/02/2021 11:48

Games
Inducing dependence on the group by introducing games with obscure rules.

There may be a case for this on MN. There was a recent thread that involved Mornington Crescent, afair.

Justhadathought · 05/02/2021 12:00

The Cult Information Centre (CIC) defines a cult as a group having all of the following five characteristics

In my early 20's I became involved with an evangelical Christian group.

On one hand the experience of being 'born again' was a wonderful and seemingly healing experience. I had truly seen the light and was bathed in its beauty and purity.

On the other hand group conformity in the human church was paramount. There were leaders. Men who interceded between you and God. Who interpreted the word of God according to their own prejudice. At bible weeks people would turn to the pastor on stage, rather than to the quiet of their own soul, when looking for instruction or guidance.

Any secrets or non-conforming aspects of oneself where to be cast out or prayed over. The world, and the people beyond the church ( even one's own family or former friends) was irredeemably fallen and in need if rescue, and the devil taunted and tested the faithful continually. The world was black and white, with no shades of grey.

Only commitment to, and certainty of, the gospel could guarantee one's salvation. When you conformed to the group dynamic you were supported and it felt like family; but when you questioned anything that was seen as a fundamental article of faith you would be cast out and seen as back-slidden or fallen.

Leaving such a community can be tough, because you are all alone. You have to recreate a whole new world view and a fresh guiding moral philosophy from scratch.

Zinco · 05/02/2021 12:31

Which side has the obscure doctrines?

Which side refuses to debate the truth of their position?

Which side is changing away from what pretty much everyone believed 5 minutes ago? (And it's not like they can appeal to scientific advancement; it's rather a matter of political fashion.)

Whatsnewpussyhat · 05/02/2021 14:40

Removal of Privacy
Achieving loss of ability to evaluate logically by preventing private contemplation

Not allowing discussion of trans ideology in your own home then Humza?

UppityPuppity · 06/02/2021 09:25

Not RTFT - (not all anyhow) - apologies if already posted - a useful take on the shitshow:

www.nationalreview.com/2021/02/scotlands-government-slashes-away-at-liberty/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

Whatsnewpussyhat · 06/02/2021 10:50

I simply don't understand why this is still being pushed ahead. This man who was the transport minister and has no legal background, is now being allowed to push these ridiculous, dangerous laws.

The reaction from everyone except shouty activists on Twitter is fuck off and don't be so stupid.

lightand · 06/02/2021 11:32

If @MaudTheInvincible is correct with her links, the power happening behind the scenes, @Whatsnewpussyhat, may be very big indeed.

littlbrowndog · 06/02/2021 13:00

Indeed fuck off and go away sums it up

Humza Yousaf and Scottish Hate Crime Bill
MichelleofzeResistance · 06/02/2021 13:17

I think anyone dependent on Mornington Crescent would probably find MN the only source of support to break their addiction tbf Grin

Recognising when they're involved in a situation with a person who constantly changes the rules as the central aim is that their partner is never fully able to understand what is going on, is coerced into tacitly accepting by engagement that their partner sets terms and they don't, and is always vulnerable to their control is sadly a well-known female experience. Females having pattern recognition isn't a hate crime, and it's not surprising that they recognise this behaviour in political lobbies who change the rules and give conflicting information at all times, where it's impossible to make logical sense of what is going on.

If it feels like Mornington Crescent and make about as much sense, females are going to get pissed off and play Mornington Crescent and at least have some fun.

MurrayBlackburnMackenzie · 06/02/2021 16:27

In case of interest, we've just published this note setting out what happened with the amendments to the hate crime bill on freedom of expression and the events that led to all of them being withdrawn the night before MSPs debated them:

mbmpolicy.files.wordpress.com/2021/02/the-retreat-on-freedom-of-expression.-a-story-in-four-parts-1.pdf

MichelleofzeResistance · 06/02/2021 16:45

Should that happen, it would mean in effect that MSPs had responded to experiencing the storm that broke over the stage two amendments by asking ordinary people, mainly women, to be braver than their elected representatives

Exactly this.

littlbrowndog · 06/02/2021 17:35

Thank you for doing this

Closed doors.

Stonewall able to intervene

unbelievable behaviour from Scottish parliament and elected MSPS

littlbrowndog · 06/02/2021 17:36

Why are they the elected MSPS afraid to stand up for the women that live in our country

WHEEST

Ereshkigalangcleg · 06/02/2021 17:49

Thank you MBM!

ArabellaScott · 06/02/2021 17:51

@Whatsnewpussyhat

I simply don't understand why this is still being pushed ahead. This man who was the transport minister and has no legal background, is now being allowed to push these ridiculous, dangerous laws.

The reaction from everyone except shouty activists on Twitter is fuck off and don't be so stupid.

He was a totally shite Transport Minister, fwiw.
YouSetTheTone · 07/02/2021 18:30

Saw this on Twitter today:

Why is it considered too complex to protect women from hate crimes but not too complex to protect men who believe they’re women from hate crimes?

Whatsnewpussyhat · 07/02/2021 19:14

It isn't too complex. They just don't want to to because men don't like being told to stop abusing women.

ArabellaScott · 07/02/2021 20:17

From ForWomenScotland on 'sex and the hate crime bill'

forwomen.scot/07/02/2021/sex-and-the-hate-crime-bill/?fbclid=IwAR09JeDS49_sN-dLaT7HoWzl2agyu0pQDt9QeKFMf9qmXSGcvnA2IZ5P7bA

Merename · 07/02/2021 21:22

@Whatsnewpussyhat

It isn't too complex. They just don't want to to because men don't like being told to stop abusing women.
Agreed. Even most of the men who don’t abuse women don’t care enough to do much to help stop it.
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