Humza Yousaf and Scottish Hate Crime Bill

[Pinkfreesias]

Humza Yousaf, the Scottish Justice Secretary, has just tweeted that the recent amendments tabled on the Freedom Of Expression (Hate Crime) Bill will not now be moved on. Hugely disappointing for women speaking out might still be labelled hate criminals here in Scotland. And I can't help wondering if it's somehow linked to Joanna Cherry's sacking.

mobile.twitter.com/HumzaYousaf/status/1356299644553322497

@Whatsnewpussyhat they can't. It needs to be passed by a majority of MSPs. That's representative democracy.

@NecessaryScene1

So male cross-dressers need "transphobia" protection because they could be mistaken for being transwomen.

But females don't need protection, because no-one could possibly confuse a woman and a transwoman?

Okay, that's normally our line, but I guess they'll use it when convenient.

You've hit the nail on the head!!! Of course women don't need protection because no one would confuse a woman and a trans woman 😂😂😂 I'm going to remember that...

Whatsnewpussyhatthey can't. It needs to be passed by a majority of MSPs. That's representative democracy

That doesn't really give me much hope tbh

www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-snp-was-wrong-to-back-down-to-the-transgender-mob

From forewoman

@Whatsnewpussyhat I understand the concern but that's why lobbying your representatives now before the election is so important. All parties need to know more fly there is a decent groundswell of opinion that is actively engaged and will vote on this issue. Might help change some minds. Better than an invisible vote at a general election where the loss of votes might not make an impact against all the other issues people could be voting on.

I have written to my reps. I've had the most arrogant shite back from the SNP MSP. And high-handed pish from the Green.

I'm not really inclined to keep writing to them, tbh. If they don't see the issues by now they are clearly unable to grasp basic logic and I doubt I will be able to persuade them.

This makes me want to support IndyRef and for Scotland to separate from the rest of the U.K. and get these scary toxic politics away from here. Truly depressing. I love(d) Scotland and went to university there but I can’t abide what it’s becoming.

@YouSetTheTone are you in England?

England isn't safe from this shit though. We've just bought more time with Labour being voted out because of Brexit.

No it isn't. The Law Commission were looking at similar proposals recently for E&W.

You are right Whatsnew. And Wales seem hellbent on following Scotland's lead.

Luckily we have far fewer devolved powers but the stealth version of self-ID is well underway and the Welsh Government (Labour) are totally captured.

If Plaid from a coalition after the next elections, as looks likely, the situation will worsen. Plaid's leader Adam Price is a committed TWAW advocate and the membership include a significant number of anti-women activists (cf www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4103049-Support-Plaid-Cymru-MP-Helen-Mary-Jones).

Their former leader Leanne Wood is an ex Women's Aid worker & social worker, and a champion of male-inclusive feminism:
"I want to see an inclusive feminism which brings women together rather than dividing us. A feminism that recognises our shared challenges while valuing our differences. A feminism that understands that gender is a complex and deeply personal thing, and is about so much more than outdated ideas of biology." 2018 statement.

Their former leader Leanne Wood is an ex Women's Aid worker & social worker, and a champion of male-inclusive feminism:
"I want to see an inclusive feminism which brings women together rather than dividing us. A feminism that recognises our shared challenges while valuing our differences. A feminism that understands that gender is a complex and deeply personal thing, and is about so much more than outdated ideas of biology." 2018 statement.

Wow just wow. If ever you needed another reason to not vote for nationalists...there it is.

A feminism that recognises our shared challenges while valuing our differences.

But it doesn't. It doesn't recognise female challenges or value female anything at all, it just barges female completely out of womanhood altogether and makes it entirely about males and male gender choices. We're not even allowed the word 'woman' any more, and 'female' and 'lesbian' are regarded as hate speech.

There is no way forward with this. It's been tried. It would seem to me to have been proven now beyond all doubt: females need boundaries from males because in mixed sex situations males will dominate to the exclusion and harm of females. There's no reciprocal respect or care. From what has been seen so far: males will not play fair in this or do their share of the work for mutual inclusion, they don't give or reciprocate to the female side of womanhood, they just expect and take. The evidence is very ample at this point: this does not involve male born self identified people giving one flying fuck about females and their voices and their needs, or what they destroy for females in the process, and female voices are daily shouted down with derision and threats of sexual violence when they try to speak their experiences and needs. Prove me wrong. Please. Show me the evidence that there is anything in this for females other than noble self sacrifice.

Which makes these lovely values just a load of enabling, female harming and sentimental bullshit. Face the bloody facts Leanne for pete's sake.

Ok griefmonster.

Thanks

I see my mp was dismayed by this

Labour Iain Murray

Their former leader Leanne Wood is an ex Women's Aid worker & social worker

Is it just me who finds it even worse that a woman who has works in these fields can push the idea that sex is irrelevant?

"outdated ideas of biology"
Can she show me the evidence that we, as a species have suddenly evolved the ability to change sex.
Gender may be "complex and deeply personal" but it's not sex or biology.

I agree it's particularly hard to take in those circumstances Whatsnew. And almost impossible to comprehend.

It's happening across all parties though.

The Welsh Government's Women & Equalities Minister Jane Hutt helped set up Women's Aid in Wales. Immediately after the UK Gov's GRA statement she put out a statement on behalf of the cabinet:
"We believe trans women are women, trans men are men and non-binary identities are valid. We restate our support for trans people’s right to self-identification."

Women's concerns are routinely ignored in favour of male demands.

Could this bill be challenged as a breach of human rights: freedom of expression, right to a private life and discrimination?

There is a facility on www.writetothem.com/ so you can send one email to cover your constituency MSP and all your regional MSPs.

We have to speak up. Please get in touch with your local representatives if you live in Scotland.

How has such a beautiful country become such an ugly place to live?

[ArabellaScott:]"Do they have to prove intent? I thought the 'hate incident' was entirely dependent on the perception of the person reporting it - no need to be sure that the person has any intent or even is one of the special protected characteristics."

It seems that they will need to prove intent. I'm still not a fan of the legislation. It encourages the police to harass people for social media posts, and they may try their luck in courts and perhaps be successful.

But it's very difficult (in theory) to prove "intent to stir up hatred" if you are just saying things like, "men aren't women". You simply deny that this was intended to stir up hate for anyone, and say that it was rather criticism of an ideology, and we should have sympathy for people suffering from gender dysphoria, but that doesn't mean you have to accept everything they say about themselves.

The prosecution then has a burden of proof that they can't really meet as "intentions" are kind of an invisible quality to a degree.

Now I could be wrong, and maybe they convict a load of people. Society is certainly going in a dystopian direction when it comes to free speech.

Quoting something from back in September of last year:

www.heraldscotland.com/news/18742331.snp-announce-hate-crime-bill-climbdown-free-speech-row/

"He said ministers will amend the Hate Crime Bill to mean a conviction for new offences of "stirring up" hatred would only be possible where it was shown that someone intended to stir up hatred through their actions or behaviour.

The draft legislation currently has a lower threshold covering behaviour "likely to" stir up hatred, whether this was done intentionally or not."

"outdated ideas of biology"

Looooooool where's the Nobel prize for this outstanding new discovery then?

Sorry OP, didn't intend to derail.

Anything that those of us watching in horror from England or Wales can do to help?

@MerchedCymru

Sorry OP, didn't intend to derail.

Anything that those of us watching in horror from England or Wales can do to help?

Or those us from even farther afield?

If the Scottish hate crime bill gets passed, women will no longer be able to say that a penis isn't a female sex organ. Fucking absurd