From now on, I was in an LGBTQ+ family’: my husband came out as trans while I was on maternity leave

[Defaultname]

www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jan/02/from-now-on-i-was-in-an-lgbtq-family-my-husband-came-out-as-trans-while-i-was-on-maternity-leave

Honestly what kind of person watches their wife go through miscarriage, pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding and then concludes that they must be a woman too? And what kind of people cheer them on?
I know I'm repeating myself but I just can't get over it.

It is pretty baffling, Flo.

@Floisme

Honestly what kind of person watches their wife go through miscarriage, pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding and then concludes that they must be a woman too? And what kind of people cheer them on? I know I'm repeating myself but I just can't get over it.

It's so cruel. Poor woman.

A few months ago I discovered that my partner had been taking hormones (bought off the internet from overseas) to become a woman while I was 7 months pregnant with our second son. So I found myself relating to what she was going through.

But then there was the "and we all lived happily ever after!" and the rhetoric that the trans woman is more important than the trauma they put you through because they're being their authentic self. It's pushed so hard, that's why I've found myself here and in GC spaces.

@DidoLamenting

We both bristled at the borders of gender stereotypes. I wantedwomen to be liberated enough to be as strong and powerful as they wanted, untethered from ragged old notions of femininity. Anatomy is not destiny, I would tell anyone who listened. Meanwhile, D bucked against equally tatty old suppositions about masculinity, had a largely androgynous wardrobe, andwas far better at housework than me. Sure,I did all the cooking(it was a passion), but perhaps this was finally the sort of gender equality I had longed for

That is one of the "me, me, me, look at me, I'm so not like the other girls" paragraphs I found extremely annoying.

It's a load of tosh. The first part about wanting to be liberated, blah, blah, blah might have been novel thinking 100 years ago but for anyone born after say 1959 (picked as it's my birth year) it's no more than I would expect from anyone with half a working brain. Except her own thought process of putting it into action is pretty poor- why should she be surprised her husband is better at housework than her?

Then there is the utter nonsense about her husband's "largely androgynous" wardrobe - so basically the same as any other man who isn't required to wear a formal suit

I didn't read that paragraph like that at all. I took it to be saying that neither of them were wedded to gender stereotypes and that she didn't think anyone should be limited in terms of their lifestyle just because of their sex. Coming from that point of view, the notion of transitioning is baffling because why would you need to? We can all be ourselves no matter which sex we are.

I don't get "me, me, me, look at me, I'm so not like the other girls" at all. She seems to be describing a boringly normal relationship which is similar to what you'd expect in the 21st century. But maybe all the other women she knows are Stepford wives, in which case she would think her relationship with her husband was a bit special.

I agree that she's about 100 years behind the times with the liberation and 'notions of femininity' bit though. And I've no idea what an 'androgynous wardrobe' is.

Themiserychick I read your story on the Trans Widows thread. I read the thread and the posts Tinsel and others share because I want to understand the impact this is having. I'm so sorry about what you've been through at a time when you need so much support I hope you're finding it helpful to talk about it here.

The stuff about how she viewed women before - when I used to speak about “the average woman”, it was a lazy, self-reflective assumption: we bled, we fed, we bred. I would sit happily discussing the books I had written, all the while perpetuating the idea of “woman” as white, fertile, able-bodied, straight, cis.' - this is a confession of sin. It's not really relevant whether she was actually a racist homophobe who despised disabled women.

The point is to self-flagellate for two reasons - one is to paint women who disagree in the worst possible light, and the other is to get the psychological pay off of publically saying "and I was like these wretches until I repented of my sins!"

I've said so many times, don't underestimate the psychological reward for women who comply and enforce the conditioning. When you ask why they do it, that's nearly always the answer. We all do what we do for some reward. For some women, there is one for being an enforcer.

With regard to the Harry Potter ban in her household, it tickles me how when I was about 10 years old it was fundamentalist Christians trying to stop their children reading the books because of fears surrounding witchcraft. Now that I've grown up, it's the 'progressive' parents who are trying to stop their children from reading it! Oh well, the children will rebel, as children do. Maybe when the next generation rebel, they'll be the ones to free us from gender woo-woo and will all lively happily in a world where those of the female and male sexes can be themselves, do what makes them happy, wear what they like and love who they love without pretending biological sex doesn't exist and needing to alter their bodies to be their 'true selves'.

Going down gangbusters on Amazon (Number 5 in 'Family and social groups') though I can't see any mention on the listing of the book's subject.
'About the Author' says she "proudly co-parents her LGBT+ family.". Did I miss something?

I don't get "me, me, me, look at me, I'm so not like the other girls" at all. She seems to be describing a boringly normal relationship which is similar to what you'd expect in the 21st century. But maybe all the other women she knows are Stepford wives, in which case she would think her relationship with her husband was a bit special

She is describing a perfectly normal relationship - so why trumpet it in the way she is doing except to make out that she is something special?

I found her extremely irritating from the very start of her article which was then compounded by the utter tripe of perpetuating the idea of women being a white woman.

Not only had she just given birth, she had experienced multiple miscarriage, failed rounds of IVF, a sexual assault while pregnant, a hazardous labour and then struggled to breastfeed. Imagine going through all that and then have your husband announce, 'I'm a woman too.'

Thanks, Floisme, for making the clear and simple point that the author didn't manage to reach in 4,000 words. All those shattering female experiences made not the slightest impression on her husband -- because he knows what being a woman really is.

And now she is being a good support human to this narcissist. I join you in not cheering.

There is a lot positive to be said about being a single parent as an active choice, but nobody gets married with the intention of getting divorced. Being a divorced single mother in your forties with a young child is an everyday tragedy.

It must be really tough for her.

Like many, many other husbands, hers turned out to be a selfish arse who thought something else in life was important than his family. The trans element is just a less common way of stomping all over the ordinary hopes his wife had of family life. , granted to many of the women she knows but not her.

It must be hard to pretend lgbtq co-parenting is a reasonable substitute for someone actually loving you, but I can understand why she pretends to believe in it.

@Stripesnomore

There is a lot positive to be said about being a single parent as an active choice, but nobody gets married with the intention of getting divorced. Being a divorced single mother in your forties with a young child is an everyday tragedy.

It must be really tough for her.

Like many, many other husbands, hers turned out to be a selfish arse who thought something else in life was important than his family. The trans element is just a less common way of stomping all over the ordinary hopes his wife had of family life. , granted to many of the women she knows but not her.

It must be hard to pretend lgbtq co-parenting is a reasonable substitute for someone actually loving you, but I can understand why she pretends to believe in it.

What seems confused is that she has one todler-I'm going by her book and online articles. Given that ;to parent' is defined as 'acting towards a child in the role of a parent', her self-description as "co-parent to a LGBGTetc family" raises the question-to which lesbian, gay,bi,trans etc.person does she act in the role of mother?

God the poor woman. I quite liked "Run like a girl" which is FULL of examples of how being female is a real thing - the history of women's sport and how they were banned from marathons til the 1970s - her complicated quest for the right sports bra off the top of my head. I think she sounds like she's in a cult and her ex sounds hideous. I also understand how much she wants to smooth things over for her child. God it just sounds horrific.

That poor woman.

The article was horrifying. I'm really curious about why the Guardian published it. You have to be pretty dogmatic not to wonder whether her ex-husband's belief that he's a woman could simply be the result of a breakdown on his part.

And the awful irony of him doing that after all she went through, and letting her down so badly.

And her pretence that she's in a new kind of family, when she's clearly just been left with the kid.

The article is no advertisement for trans inclusiveness. I could actually imagine someone writing at article like that as an act of sabotage.

@Floisme

Honestly what kind of person watches their wife go through miscarriage, pregnancy, childbirth and breastfeeding and then concludes that they must be a woman too? And what kind of people cheer them on? I know I'm repeating myself but I just can't get over it.

It's like he was jealous in some perverse way. Surely not of the pain she was going through - I'm sure he probably never even considered it. But of any "attention" she was getting?

It might just be the age of onset for trans seems to be middle age for most mtf but sheesh there are a lot of us who had husbands transition during pregnancy or very shortly thereafter. Mine told me he was trans when our daughter was an infant as well.

As an aside @Defaultname - re the average thing. Three different types of statistical average.
Mean, mode and median.

Mean = add them all together and divide by the number of things / people
Mode = is the commonest value, the one you have most of
Median = the one in the middle of the range

So 9 men have rods of the following lengths in cm
3,3,3,3,4,5,5,9,10

Mean = total (45) divided by 9 = 5
Mode = 3 because there are the most of them
Median = 4 because it's the middle value in the range

So they give different values and should be used in different situations depending on what you want to achieve and the range of values. So we know the classic splitting the bill after a meal with friends only works using the Mean if you all owe very similar amounts. If it's a huge range in values it's not appropriate to use.

Mean and mode are the most useful really - but I get the rage when not told which is being used as it makes a huge difference. If we are told the average wage, in an industry, is £50k because they are using mean average and include the v high earners, that's quite different to finding out most employees are actually on £30k - modal average.

As for the article, she doesn't come over well to me, but I know the Brighton wokerati, she's trapped in a nonsensical worldview that she's trying to make sense of. I hope she has some breakthrough moments which allow her to detach and stop being the support act.

Agree about the "cool girl" description of their supposedly non gender conforming relationship - sounds pretty average in this day and age for men and women in a relationship to share housework and earning. And "gender neutral" clothes - I'm wearing my husband's jumper right now because it was the first thing to hand on a chilly morning, it's not some nonbinary statement! Really feels like that bit was shoehorned in in retrospect.

Look at the conversation AH is having to have re: the use of the word “husband” in the article’s title/headline...

@LittleRa

Look at the conversation AH is having to have re: the use of the word “husband” in the article’s title/headline...

They can't help it - their ideology is indefensible, nonsensical, so they end up policing each other. That'll peak a few more lurkers.

I wonder how the Guardian will respond.

This is utterly nonsensical. How can you tell your story if you can't use the word husband? At the time the author's spouse came out to her, he was her husband! The transition came later!

Someone should direct her to this thread.

It's also deeply insulting to her. That's her story - she married a man. I'm assuming, given why she's written, that she wouldn't have married that person if they had been a transwoman at the time. The insistence that other people deny the truth (deny their truth and their own trauma) to facilitate a fantasy is not kind.