I'm a young feminist; I cannot understand your Gender Critical positions

[borandukht]

Hello all, I'm writing this because I'm at the end of my tether with my mother, who has become engulfed in the gender critical discourse mainly thanks to this website (cheer or weep for that depending on your view). She had originally been very comfortable with transgender rights, and given we have a closeish relative who is transgender too, I've never felt put out or uncomforted by what the trans-rights movement was all about.

After absorbing what you lot have to say about the matter (in general, I know there are some pro-trans feminists on here) she's completely changed her tune and frankly it's becoming exhausting and absurd. I had never really listened to the arguments of GC feminists before the last year or so, and frankly after listening to them I have become ever more convinced that you are unfortunately gravely misinformed on a variety of topics regarding transgender individuals, the goals of the rights movement, and the resultant society that values trans-lives. Some of the repugnant transphobia I've seen online further makes it hard for me to value this movement's "genuine concerns" as truly genuine. What made me snap was yesterday seeing a comment on here stating that the Daily Mail was more feminist than the Guardian. I read neither, because they're both toilet paper, but anyone who says anything so blatantly obtuse to reality clearly has a very specific, narrow view of feminism predicated entirely on not liking GNC people - I don't see how anyone who's read any Daily Mail article ever could say that without laughing.

So, I'm here to listen. GC people always say they just want an open discussion, and I am happy to oblige. There will be no hate, nothing like that. I will try and engage you directly, and respond to why you have these positions as fairly and equitably as I can. Hitherto the arguments I have read/heard from GC's online and in print have been unconvincing, but here at least I can respond directly and try and start this discussion that is so desirable.

If you want specific starter questions (god I sound like my lecturers), think about stuff like:

1. Why do transwomen represent such a threat to you in women's spaces, in your mind?
2. Where do intersex women fit into your feminism?
3. What makes a woman? If it is genitals, does a transwoman with bottom surgery count in your mind? If it's chromosomes is Caster Semenya a man?

I hope to read your answers soon. In the meantime, merry post-Christmas!

@Soontobe60

Faf de Klerk - hardly looks fragile!

Proves the point that the OP despite her protestations knows the sum total of f-all about rugby.

Regarding refuges, there is a specific opportunity for them to reject anyone who poses even the mildest risk for any of their other sheltered people (such as with same-sex attracted victims of sexual assault)

What the FUCK are you on about?

I’m so glad you find this funny. Not.

I think the flounce has happened and it was a silent flounce!

I think OP has fled again while she goes to check the party line to be sure she's regurgitating the correct TRA groupthink since she's got quite a lot of it wrong so far.

@RedDogsBeg sorry X-post.

Borandukht

Funnily enough I cooked it this year (as I have for about 6 years or so now). I've gained a new found respect for her for being on this site every day, after about five hours as a member I've wanted to blow my brains out about four times
Yes, it's really not the place for people who can't cope with other people's opinions.

after about five hours as a member I've wanted to blow my brains out about four times

If you struggle with logical debate I can see how it would be somewhat taxing for you to be here. Maybe you'll learn something though right? (If you can get past your own fixed narrative and try to understand the bigger picture that is)

Just to pick up on the sports point. I’m an Amateur sports woman here who has played against a trans woman. It’s just utterly unfair and I should be allowed to say that.
Men are vastly different to women and as such have their own sporting competitions. Differences (this is not exhaustive) include...
Their bone dentistry and structure
The hormones they’ve had all their life
Muscle density and hypertorphy
Heart and lung size
Leverage size through linger limbs
The lived experience of training as a male for x number of years and often having better coaching and access to higher level competition
Height (generally)
Better ability to gain a higher VO2 max
Better lactic acid thresholds

Female solidarity with women does not have to include men.

Females don't have to be nice or kind either

Yes the problem tends to be men.

I am planning to start a rights movement for men called Kevin because they are safer in women's spaces than in men's, Kevin's rights are human rights

What does the OP hope to achieve bu coming on here and lying to a group of women who are far better informed?!
Spouting nonsense, like the claim that there have been no sexual assaults by transwomen in women’s prisons, when we are all fully aware of “Karen” White’s four sex attacks before being transferred back to the men’s prison from which he should never have been moved in the first place.
Ditto toilets- the 10 year old girl attacked by a transwoman in the women’s toilets at Asda in Dunfermline, for example.
Is there some brainwashing technique used by TRAs that prevents their sympathisers being able to read easily available crime reports, or are they just wilfully ignorant and intellectually challenged?

I don't assume that transmen are predatory.
I'm gender critical because gender dysphoria can be a symptom of all sorts of things, not all of them being "born in the wrong body".
And young women and young men are being sold a lie, AND losing their fertility their ability to find a partner and their physical health as a result of trans affirmative treatments and pathways.
Cults often seem v welcoming.

Transpeople have the same protection under the equality act and other legislation that we all do.

What civil rights specifically do you think trans people don't have? What exactly is the trans civil rights movement campaigning for?

I would like to know this.

@Franklyfrost

It’s like a having conversation with Farage about immigration, you’re not going to get anywhere op.

OP asked people to answer their questions, and they got 16 pages worth of answers, I'd say that's pretty successful, no?

Unless by 'not going to get anywhere' you mean they're not going to make everyone subscribe to their belief, then you're right. Especially as OP tells us we're all 'gravely misinformed', whilst demonstrating their own ignorance. No attacks on women in single sex prisons by trans inmates? The upcoming judicial review and the stats that are easy to Google beg to differ...

If you come to a board to 'educate' people when you clearly have no clue what you're talking about, people aren't going to take too kindly to it.

Screenshots possibly. Or maybe she's writing some little undergrad assignment on the dreadful transphobic British women so that she can take quotes back and twist them to make her point.

lmao

Oh dear. When you said 'young' feminist, you werent kidding, were you?

The sad thing is that you will realise, in a few decades, that

a) no, you really didn't know everything at this age, even though you really thought you did
b) you really won't believe that you and your views have become worthless due to your age, and you will be able to see the issues in something some dewy eyed youngster naiively holds as the truth
c) life experience is a thing

And d) if you are female, sadly you will probably start to realise the privilege you had at this time in your life that allowed you to believe that female needs aren't a thing and should be subordinated to the needs of male people when necessary.

If you could be bothered to actually read and listen to other women, you might realise, many older women will tell you they did not realise about sexism or oppression or how seriously it impacted upon them until they were further along the line of being an adult human female.

You will also come to know more about other female people not as privileged as you, for whom the oppression will be much greater, and you may start to realise that justice and improvement is not achieved for male people or for society as a whole simply by oppressing those women more and pretending there is no problem.

[quote WhatTiggersDoBest]@RedDogsBeg sorry X-post. [/quote]
As the Op appears to be a gun toting death penalty supporter I felt sure we were going to be treated to a stream of expletives and being told how we should be ashamed of ourselves, we're killing people (irony overload!), yada, yada, yada, etc., ad nauseum.

I've gained a new found respect for her for being on this site every day, after about five hours as a member I've wanted to blow my brains out about four times

Sounds like you did that before you joined.

OP asked people to answer their questions, and they got 16 pages worth of answers, I'd say that's pretty successful, no?

Very successful, this bits less successful

I will try and engage you directly, and respond to why you have these positions as fairly and equitably as I can. Hitherto the arguments I have read/heard from GC's online and in print have been unconvincing, but here at least I can respond directly and try and start this discussion that is so desirable

Yes it's pretty homophobic. Thought we'd moved past all this crap years ago. Seemingly it's back with a vengeance.

@Soontobe60

Faf de Klerk - hardly looks fragile!

80kg 'barely anything'

The same scrum half position on the England women's team is held by women weighing between 63-65kg.

I wasn’t going to comment, as it will just feed your belief you are right and everyone else wrong. It’s obvious you have your thoughts and are not going to listen to anyone else, we are wrong end of

One of your points however is that there are no stats on transgender assaults on woman in prison

Well a simple google search shows this

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/seven-sex-attacks-in-womens-jails-by-transgender-convicts-cx9m8zqpg

No doubt I could waste my time googling responses to the rest of your comments but I simply can’t be bothered

You simply don’t get that w9mans rights to safe spaces are being eroded. One day when you grow up you might understand

Crikey, the number of times these posts tell women they're mean which are then full of the most ignorant, uninformed twaddle.

Op, I do not accept that convicted male paedophiles and rapists should be given access to incarcerated women as part of their sentence.

This is Karen white. A convicted rapist who was put in a female prison and subsequently convicted of the sexual assault of the inmates.

Men do not belong in women's sport. They have a physical advantage which will decimate female sport. This physical advantage is not reduced significantly, through taking female hormones. Study after study confirms.

When I have a smear test, I would like to specify a female HCP. Likewise for a mammogram. I do not want to be forced to have a male HCP in order to validate him.

Women who have been subjected to domestic violence, or raped, need to recover in a male free environment. They should not be forced into disclosing their trauma to a male, in order to validate him.

I couldn't care less if you understand this, or not.

The answer is no. This may come as a surprise to you.

No.