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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

686 replies

KristinaJup · 12/12/2020 18:46

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

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Londonsuffolkmummy · 16/12/2020 21:52

No he won’t be wearing dresses he’s a boy

WouldBeGood · 16/12/2020 21:55

Clothes do not design sex

merrymouse · 16/12/2020 22:19

Society doesn't cater for boys wearing dresses.

The great thing about mumsnet is that it allows you to talk to people from all over the world and also parallel universes.

TableFlowerss · 16/12/2020 22:20

@midgebabe

So my mother should not have sent me to school because I was being bullied ? Bizarre
Kids have a hard enough time at school. Most kids will get teased for one thing or another, the majority of which the the patent can’t control such as hair colour, height, eight, size of teeth and the list goes on....

There’s certain things that are in the control of the parent. To allow them to wear something that isn’t standard to prove a point --and jump on the bandwagon-- is just is pointless.

If the kid doesn’t get bullied and all the responses are positive, happy days but why on earth any parent would insist on putting a child in such a position is beyond me.

If you’re that bothered just send them in in their pjs?! End of the day clothing is clothing is clothing, right? If you insist it shouldn’t matter what they wear then why not PJ’s....

Griefmonster · 16/12/2020 22:54

Indeed - Why not PJs? My DC went to school Christmas party in (clean) polar bear pyjamas. I have no fucks to give about what clothes people choose to wear (although I draw the line at wearing clothes. I accept that is a pretty universal agreed minimum standard!)

You do you, save your energy and outrage for something more meaningful.

TableFlowerss · 16/12/2020 23:10

I’m sure but some pjs are had time distinguish between bed wear and day wear. I still put my boy in tops that I can’t say for certain aren’t pjs- superhero type ones. So no one else would know the difference either...

I’m talking about stripey, no mistaken are they aren’t they pjs with dressing gown and skippers....

TableFlowerss · 16/12/2020 23:10

slippers 😂

FourPlatinumRings · 16/12/2020 23:32

If the kid doesn’t get bullied and all the responses are positive, happy days but why on earth any parent would insist on putting a child in such a position is beyond me.

These days, boys in dresses are unlikely to get bullied at school, if your school is anywhere near half decent anyway. My state comprehensive growing up was in special measures and still no one would have bullied a guy in a dress. I genuinely think in this day and age it's not the red fish to a bull a lot of posters seem to think it is. Ultimately, you can be picked on for anything- the only way you can guarantee a kid won't be is not to send them to school at all.

FourPlatinumRings · 16/12/2020 23:33

red flag 😂

Crystalclair · 17/12/2020 01:06

Well said TableFlowers!

ChestnutStuffing · 17/12/2020 02:27

@merrymouse

“Skirts and dresses are generally designed to show off the curves of a woman's body aren't they?”

No.

Those are cassocks, though, neither skirts nor dresses.

I think you could argue a kilt or sarong is a type of skirt, but I don't think a cassock is really a dress. It's not made the same way.

HarryHarryHarry · 17/12/2020 03:01

I’d let my son wear whatever he wanted within reason (no mismatched/dirty/creased clothes or inappropriate clothes, eg pyjamas) but I would probably try to gently discourage any outfit that would invite ridicule if only to protect him.

At his current age (2) he has lots of pink stuff and wants a Little Mermaid doll for Christmas.

drspouse · 17/12/2020 05:05

I don't think a cassock is really a dress. It's not made the same way.
What, you mean with fabric and thread?
Of course it's made the same way.
Lots of boys and men round here on their way to mosque on a Friday in dresses too. Or are those not really dresses either? I don't see them being bullied for it.

midgebabe · 17/12/2020 07:19

So you would not allow them to wear what they like out of fear ( supporting and therefore reinforces gender stereotypes which are harmful to boys and girls )

What about encouraging them when their interests are technical ( because despite what some people here want to believe, I did get bullied at school because I was good and loved maths and physics ) should my parents have steered me gently to other subjects just for my own safety ( I was good all rounder ) ?

Where would you draw that line ?

TableFlowerss · 17/12/2020 11:25

@midgebabe

So you would not allow them to wear what they like out of fear ( supporting and therefore reinforces gender stereotypes which are harmful to boys and girls )

What about encouraging them when their interests are technical ( because despite what some people here want to believe, I did get bullied at school because I was good and loved maths and physics ) should my parents have steered me gently to other subjects just for my own safety ( I was good all rounder ) ?

Where would you draw that line ?

This is the whole ‘agenda pushing’, ‘bandwagon’ jumping, ‘point proving’ type of thing, that others are explaining the negative implications of!

Should it matter what type of cloth, whether it be cotton, nylon, Lycra... and how it’s shaped, ie trousers, skirts, bow ties, hats whatever.... anyone wears? No it shouldn’t.

At its basic level it’s to protect our modesty and prevent all and sundry seeing our Crown Jewels and the like.

Over time fashions change for both men and women. (Before I continue, I reiterate I absolutely understand the argument put forward saying why does it matter what fabric we chose to cover out bodies, eg skirt/trousers. The concept that it should define us is ridiculous, I agree, it shouldn’t matter really)

However, we live in a society where there are norms. It’s not debatable whether they exist or not- they absolutely categorically do. It’s a fact. Cultural norms, social norms inclusive. This is across the board, certainly not just here in Britain. There norms are world wide.

Whether you agree with it or not, at this present moment in time, it is not the norm for a boy to wear a dress outside. Once again, should it matter really the shape of fabric covering us? No - but it’s either the norm or it isn’t. I can say that it isn’t currently the norm for boys to wear dresses to school (not to say I agree that it should be like that)

It’s like women shaving their heads. You rarely see it, yet every 5th man has a shaven head. Why do more women chose to have longer hair? It’s the social norm here for women to not shave their heads.

I imagine some women would love to shave their heads (and I’m sure they’d look gorgeous if they did) but you rarely see it, because they know they’ll get stared at, as it’s very unusual. So it’s easier to just go along with it and carry on with the norms.

Again, should it be like that? Well no but it is
(Sadly really)

As parents we have two choices. Either try to get your child to conform to the general guidelines of what the current norm is or to chose to throw caution to the wind and say ‘fuck scat others think’.

That’s fine if it’s the adult dealing with the backlash and negative comments but many parents don’t want to put their children in a position they (the child) won’t anticipate could happen - getting the piss taken out of them.

It’s not a matter of right or wrong. I’d applaud anyone that had the guts (because I’d think it would take guts) to send their 8 year old boy to school in a dress. I wound sincerely hope that they had the best day and the next day some of the other boys also wore dresses. That would be great.

Sadly, I imagine that would be very much the exception. The boy would get picked on, laughed at and come home in tears. I know that I couldn’t put him through that.

It’s all very well saying ‘you need to instil to him about bullies and he shouldn’t need to change etc’, but wearing a dress doesn’t define a person. If he’s happy and he doesn’t care what other people say then great, but many kids want to fit in with their peers, it’s a normal part of growing up.

Clothing doesn’t define a person to the extent some people thing it does.

TableFlowerss · 17/12/2020 11:28

To add, it’s about a parents intention to protect their child and make their life as easy as possible. Nothing more nothing less. There’s no right or wrong answer.

TableFlowerss · 17/12/2020 11:29

and no I wouldn’t discourage my DC from take subjects she’s good at. If she wanted to go in to a science/maths based subject, I’d be very proud and encourage it.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 17/12/2020 11:35

it’s like women shaving their heads. You rarely see it, yet every 5th man has a shaven head

Although I absolutely understand your point every man i know who shaves his head does it because he is balding...or bald

TableFlowerss · 17/12/2020 11:44

@RufustheSniggeringReindeer

it’s like women shaving their heads. You rarely see it, yet every 5th man has a shaven head

Although I absolutely understand your point every man i know who shaves his head does it because he is balding...or bald

I agree with you and that did cross my mind and I understand that women don’t tend to lose their hair in the same way men do.

I was thinking of the ones that do it through choice because they suit it or like the look etc..

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 17/12/2020 11:47

And again i agree that some men do it out of choice...or so they say !

But on that note some very few women do actually bald and some get alopecia and its more likely that those women will try and replace the hair rather than be bald

So your point still stands obviously...it just occurred to me, and i need a delay function that stops me from typing everything that comes into my head

MedusasBadHairDay · 17/12/2020 11:50

Kids have a hard enough time at school. Most kids will get teased for one thing or another, the majority of which the the patent can’t control such as hair colour, height, eight, size of teeth and the list goes on....

There’s certain things that are in the control of the parent. To allow them to wear something that isn’t standard to prove a point and jump on the bandwagon is just is pointless.

Actually this is interesting to me, I was bullied a lot for being short - something utterly out of my control. And I found it very hard to cope with.

At some point though I made a conscious decision to dress in an unconventional manner, figuring that if I was going to be picked on them it should at least be for something I had control over. Initial reactions were as expected, but interestingly the bullying then dropped off. I suspect because I'd chosen it I was less insecure about it and it made me less of a target, bullys thrive on insecurity.

So maybe allowing kids the freedom to choose what makes them stand out actually makes it less likely they'll be bullied?

Orrace · 17/12/2020 11:56

I'm wearing trousers!! I'm a woman!! Shocker!!! (My kids accept my gender dysphoria, however). My eldest boy who is autistic had a period of wearing my dresses (I have trousers and dresses in my wardrobe) He also thought he might be gay. I found an LGBTQ youth club, and he had a long chat with a transvestite friend about safely cross dressing (not putting himself at risk in public, for example, people can be intolerant) Now, 3 years later he can't even remember he was ever into cross dressing.... For some people it's life long, for others its not, but as time goes on there is likely to be less and less comment on men wearing "women's" clothes, as there is no comment at all about women wearing trousers.

TableFlowerss · 17/12/2020 11:59

@MedusasBadHairDay

Kids have a hard enough time at school. Most kids will get teased for one thing or another, the majority of which the the patent can’t control such as hair colour, height, eight, size of teeth and the list goes on....

There’s certain things that are in the control of the parent. To allow them to wear something that isn’t standard to prove a point and jump on the bandwagon is just is pointless.

Actually this is interesting to me, I was bullied a lot for being short - something utterly out of my control. And I found it very hard to cope with.

At some point though I made a conscious decision to dress in an unconventional manner, figuring that if I was going to be picked on them it should at least be for something I had control over. Initial reactions were as expected, but interestingly the bullying then dropped off. I suspect because I'd chosen it I was less insecure about it and it made me less of a target, bullys thrive on insecurity.

So maybe allowing kids the freedom to choose what makes them stand out actually makes it less likely they'll be bullied?

I do get what you mean, as you say, the fact you got bullied for something out of your control probably made you stronger and gave the attitude - sod what they think.
DickKerrLadies · 17/12/2020 12:08

I'd quite like people to start designing dresses for men. I bet they'd have pockets.

MedusasBadHairDay · 17/12/2020 12:11

TableFlowerss Definitely, it helped me in a huge way. I think it had other knock on effects too, eg. Learning that you don't have to bow to peer pressure. My parents were never worried about me being pressured into dangerous situations, because they knew I was capable of not-conforming and saying no. Useful skills to have.