Would you ok your son wearing a dress?

[KristinaJup]

Candace Owens recently tweeted (in response to Harry Styles wearing a dress on a magazine cover) "Bring Back Manly Men".. amongst other things.

Who really cares if a guy wears tutus and glittery dresses? Prince was hot af in his heels and Makeup.

Imo I would have no problem with it at all if my son wanted to put on a skirt but the tweet gained a lot of traction and I saw quite a few memes and lots of fingers pointed at feminism for "ruining men"

If we carry on this way the next thing will be....women should not be wearing trousers! What do you think?

@FourPlatinumRings

The kilt is an interesting point, or a sarong, or any of the other outfits that are materially the same as dresses or skirts but are considered men's clothing. Why would Harry Styles or some random bloke or boy not wear a kilt, which would fit and look better on him than it is likely to on a woman, if he wants a skirt type garment? A sarong or centurion style skirt might be a bit too culturally weird though could be possible, but a kilt is pretty standardly recognised as a male garment.

I'd have thought it was cultural appropriation to wear a kilt if not Scottish. Could be wrong though.

GAH! Must put the bloody phone down...

As opposed to pants, or any other clothing? Tweed? All plaid? Are sarongs only ok for Polynesians?

Cultural appropriation is an idea spun out from on the concept of intellectual property, which is a legal fiction. One with some use but which legally that it has limits in time for good reason.

Kilts have appeared in many cultures, in any case.

Figure this - DH and pretty much all the men and DS all worse kilts at our wedding as were a large Scottish family. DH also wears T-shirt’s and the like in pinks and with flowers on and even on our first date he wore a flowered shirt and combat trousers.

I genuinely don’t care how others dress, it bares no impact on me. I draw the line at my DS wearing a dress though, for no other reason, he struggles to fit in at the best of times - so I just think a dress would be like red rag to a bull for unwanted attention.

I'd have thought it was cultural appropriation to wear a kilt if not Scottish. Could be wrong though

You are wrong. Kilts come in all sorts of fabric now- leather, tweed, plain flannel, pin stripe, Missoni stripes, not just tartan. Vin Diesel looked rather splendid in a leather kilt. Jean-Paul Gaultier used to regularly wear a tartan kilt- often paired with a stripy Breton/ Kurt Cobain top.

@ncbby

I grew up in Scotland (mostly) and I like the look of a man in a kilt but I would usually think it had some kind of familial or cultural tie to it. I'm not sure there's a "Styles" tartan either

I have an all black kilt (no Scottish heritage that I know of) that I wear in the summer when it's hot.

Though 'hot' in Scotland is a relative term.

Figure this - DH and pretty much all the men and DS all worse kilts at our wedding as were a large Scottish family. DH also wears T-shirt’s and the like in pinks and with flowers on and even on our first date he wore a flowered shirt and combat trousers

Kilts are irrelevant to this discussion. Kilts are culturally a man's garment since roughly the C16th occaionally (allowing for period of banning after 1745) appropriated by women and girls at private schools.

I'm sure your husband looked lovely in his flowered shirt, but sorry, that is about as gender ground breaking as the poster who thinks her husband is making some sort of statement wearing pink shirts. My husband buys suits from as conservative and traditional a tailor as you could hope to find and they stock both and he owns both.

*I have an all black kilt (no Scottish heritage that I know of) that I wear in the summer when it's hot.

Though 'hot' in Scotland is a relative term.*

Yes, the hottest I remember it being is about 25C and I remember thinking that was disgustingly sweltering Still, means I can forsake bulky jackets in winter as I'm acclimatised to the North Pole!

@DidoLamenting

Figure this - DH and pretty much all the men and DS all worse kilts at our wedding as were a large Scottish family. DH also wears T-shirt’s and the like in pinks and with flowers on and even on our first date he wore a flowered shirt and combat trousers

Kilts are irrelevant to this discussion. Kilts are culturally a man's garment since roughly the C16th occaionally (allowing for period of banning after 1745) appropriated by women and girls at private schools.

I'm sure your husband looked lovely in his flowered shirt, but sorry, that is about as gender ground breaking as the poster who thinks her husband is making some sort of statement wearing pink shirts. My husband buys suits from as conservative and traditional a tailor as you could hope to find and they stock both and he owns both.

😂😂

I can’t say I disagree with you. Pink/floral prints for men I’m cool with.... but dresses absolutely not!

I'm sure your husband looked lovely in his flowered shirt, but sorry, that is about as gender ground breaking as the poster who thinks her husband is making some sort of statement wearing pink shirts

Could you please tag me Dido rather than vaguely referencing things I've said if you'd like to comment on them?
I said he wore "feminine" pastel shirts which in this context can mean pink. I never said he was groundbreaking for it, but I've met men in my life who would never be caught dead in a "woman's colour" as ridiculous as that is... He's also previously worn a dress, and has gone out once in one of my wigs, and lets me do his makeup and paint his nails. I also pluck his eyebrows, all of which are stereotypically feminine things (as of this point in time). Whether you want to consider that "groundbreaking" or not is up to you, but let's not deride my point based on one example I provided that didn't pack as much punch as the others you chose not to reference.

Anything for attention and drama these days and we all have to be ok with it
Unless your a preschooler No

Could you please tag meDidorather than vaguely referencing things I've said if you'd like to comment on them?

Tagging is usually frowned on FWR and even if it wasn't, I wasn't going to plough back through goodness knows how many pages to find out who made the comment. It's hardly unusual to refer to "a poster said"

Pastels aren't feminine. Pale blue, pink, or yellow shirts are standard wear with a formal suit. It's practically a uniform for City workers, lawyers, accountants and the like. So much so I can't really see the point of mentioning it.

I can understand why you've done it Dido, but in the context of what you've said it came across as passive aggressive.

My point was that he has worn outwardly feminine things and he has worn more passively feminine things. Maybe coloured shirts weren't the best example of that - he will sometimes wear my (relatively feminine) jumpers if they suit him and he likes them. That's the example that I was trying to provide, that he has dressed brashly feminine but he still has tints of feminine style even when there's a social and employment-related pressure to dress masculinely additionally given the nature of his work. I never insinuated that to be groundbreaking, I was responding to the question "would you fancy your husband in a dress?" and I said "yes, I would because here is his style that is occasionally feminine which I don't object to at all".

Ok Sorry, point taken

But just to let you know whilst I don't mind being tagged some of the regulars on FWR really don't like being tagged and will tell you so if you do it.

You're more broadminded than me. I'm afraid I'd throw a wobbly if my husband wanted to wear a dress !

I hear that, which is why I'll usually do this instead of @ depending on the context. If people are bothered by that then they'd have to explain the issue themselves as I don't necessarily understand that.

Thank you for saying that though, and acknowledging what I've said. It's easy to get into defensive mode especially online (I'm very guilty of it) but I appreciate you taking my point.

And yes, maybe it's partially to do with me being bisexual or maybe it's just because I'm not especially fussed with what people wear ( or I watch too much Rocky Horror ) but I'd be more than happy with him wearing a dress if he wanted to. I'm not especially attached to the idea of "manly men" necessarily. Though I might take some interest into making sure he got his colour palette and dress shape right!

Yes, the hottest I remember it being is about 25C and I remember thinking that was disgustingly sweltering grin Still, means I can forsake bulky jackets in winter as I'm acclimatised to the North Pole!

It's fun watching the tourists bundled up in ski-wear when it's T shirt weather isn't it?.

Right, back on topic - Kilts may be 'men's wear' but try wearing one in England if you're not playing a set of pipes or doing something else quintessentially Scottish. The average Englishman can't tell the difference between a kilt and a skirt - and will let you know (usually behind your back).

I actually think that's an interesting point, even though it's a very weird one. Dr Frankenfurter, though he was a mad scientist, was always very much a man even though he dressed up in lingerie and makeup and dresses. To me anyway, he always had quite strong "manly man" energy even though he wore "womanly" clothing. Though of course I'm not advocating for anyone to walk around in suspenders and a corset in public, I think it would be healthy if we could get to a point where clothing choices didn't affect gender identity or perception of character.

Sorry not sure if that made any sense!

** sorry the "I think that's an interesting point" thing I wrote was in reference to the previous thing I wrote. (Though that sounds very self-congratulatory when I put it like that, whoops!)

It's fun watching the tourists bundled up in ski-wear when it's T shirt weather isn't it?

And yes, you should see the difference between my Australian mother and I when it comes to clothing choices in Scotland

Would you be happy to go on a date with a man in a dinosaur costume

I would have proposed marriage in that very moment if he had turned up on a dinosaur costume.

Just over 100 years ago it it wasn’t culturally appropriate for women to vote or be doctors or lawyers.

Thank goodness some women were prepared to do things that weren’t culturally appropriate, even if people talked about them behind their backs.

@TableFlowerss

On a final note - you say you have a toddler, now they may be your 4th child....or your first.

If they are your first, it would be interesting to see if you still hold the same views when they’re at school and trying to fit in! It’s easier to have ideological views when you’re not faced with the reality.

My first, and she's a girl. But I do teach and am very confident that no boy in a dress in my school would be ostracized for it, but then we engender an atmosphere of tolerance and respect, very successfully. Saying that, I'm also certain that no boy in a dress would've been picked on in my secondary school- everyone was very right on and liberal, despite it being a special measures school. I don't believe that a boy in a dress would necessarily be mercilessly bullied (and if they were, that would represent a problem with the school- you'll not catch me telling a child to change the way they look or act to appease bullies).

Ultimately, to say to a child that they can't wear a certain garment because of their sex is regressive and prejudiced. Dresses and skirts are lovely and comfortable to wear, particularly when it's hot, and I don't think we should deny half of the population the chance to experience that for no real reason at all. I do also think attitudes will shift over time- I remember my DF opining that earrings on men were for '(offensive term for gay men) and pirates' when I was little, yet they're really mainstream now.

@merrymouse

Just over 100 years ago it it wasn’t culturally appropriate for women to vote or be doctors or lawyers.

Thank goodness some women were prepared to do things that weren’t culturally appropriate, even if people talked about them behind their backs.

Indeed.

My first, and she's a girl. But I do teach and am very confident that no boy in a dress in my school would be ostracized for it, but then we engender an atmosphere of tolerance and respect, very successfully. Saying that, I'm also certain that no boy in a dress would've been picked on in my secondary school- everyone was very right on and liberal, despite it being a special measures school. I don't believe that a boy in a dress would necessarily be mercilessly bullied (and if they were, that would represent a problem with the school- you'll not catch me telling a child to change the way they look or act to appease bullies).

My son used to go to school in his Frozen dress from time to time when he was younger (it was on his Christmas list one year and Father Christmas duly delivered) - and he and his pal used to play 'princesses' at our house - (mine had two older sisters, the pal was oldest of two boys) which usually meant getting dressed up and then playing football - because that's what princesses do.

@SimonJT

Would you be happy to go on a date with a man in a dinosaur costume

I would have proposed marriage in that very moment if he had turned up on a dinosaur costume.

😂

Thank you for that! Proper made me laugh that did.

As I say, it’s all very well now saying you’d be fine with it and that you’d teach him be an wear what he wants etc etc but when the time comes, you may not feel the same way.

You bring a teachers makes no difference as your not emotionally invested in anywhere near the same way, you are with your own children.

It’s great that you feel very confident to say your school kids wouldn’t bully others etc but that doesn’t represent all schools. If only it were that simple....

It’s great that you feel very confident to say your school kids wouldn’t bully others etc but that doesn’t represent all schools. If only it were that simple....

But if it's not all schools surely then it's a problem with a specific school and needs to be sorted out? Rather than forcing more conformity...

@berrygirlie

It’s great that you feel very confident to say your school kids wouldn’t bully others etc but that doesn’t represent all schools. If only it were that simple....

But if it's not all schools surely then it's a problem with a specific school and needs to be sorted out? Rather than forcing more conformity...

As I have just said, if a parents chooses to send their boy to school in a dress, they need to take in to account their boy at be made to feel uncomfortable by other children.

The point is, a younger child wouldn’t know the potential negative consequences, therefore the parent has to make that call.