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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can someone please explain... (trans)

999 replies

WednesdayAllTheWay · 12/12/2020 12:56

So I've been trying to follow this trans situation for a while but now having skin in the game in the form of a child (and also noting through work how more and more people are identifying as the opposite gender) I need to understand it better.
Feel slightly embarrassed asking but:

  1. How exactly do the words sex and gender differ in this area?
  2. What reasons do trans people give for wanting to change their physical bodies? As in what do people believe they will get from this that they couldn't get in the body they were born with?
  3. What are children being taught at school about this?
Thanks!
OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
highame · 19/12/2020 14:51

ooohh nicely trying to pile on the 'infertile women' argument but we are talking about transwomen and not about infertile women. There is a massive difference. You know the arguments are never about infertile women.

Haven't RTFT so almost chucked up when I came to the last page. Really wasn't expecting to find womb transplants.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 19/12/2020 14:51

We have reporting of the real risk of suicide in trans young people. I realise it's an uncomfortable topic on a forum like this, but it's a very real danger.

You may want to read this by Michael Biggs (Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Oxford) its an analysis of trans suicide stats:

Although GIDS told me that it could not provide information before 2016, its websitete_ in 2017 stated that ‘suicide is extremely rare, with one case in the service in the last decade, of a young person in an inpatient ward who was referred with severe psychiatric difficulties.’*

www.transgendertrend.com/suicide-by-trans-identified-children-in-england-and-wales/

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 14:51

Haven't RTFT so almost chucked up when I came to the last page. Really wasn't expecting to find womb transplants.

I was. It's a nonsense.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 14:53

and you’ve been given a platform to expound your viewpoint

Very happy for people like Positrans to have this platform for onlookers to judge their case according to their own words. 24/7 365 days of the year.

Positrans · 19/12/2020 14:54

[quote OldCrone]@Positrans
GIDS say that "suicide is extremely rare" amongst children with gender dysphoria. Please stop spreading misinformation.
gids.nhs.uk/evidence-base[/quote]
Amongst children who are well supported by their families and receiving psychological support. Otherwise, the suicide attempt rate is something like 50%

Here's a survey of over 34,000 respondents, it is the largest survey of LGBTQ youth mental health ever conducted:

www.thetrevorproject.org/survey-2019/?section=Introduction

PotholeParadies · 19/12/2020 14:56

Harvesting as soon as possible.

That means putting a young girl who is already psychologically struggling with puberty on medication to stimulate egg production. Significant side-effects are possible.

Then the eggs have to be extracted. Adult women find that procedure farking unpleasant. I can't imagine a teenage transboy finds it less traumatic to sit in stirrups for gynae procedures.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 14:57

When you say 'assigned male at birth' you mean 'biologically male body' don't you? It's not like the doctors/midwives assign a sex and then it all depends on what they say as to whether that baby will go on to develop a biologically male or female body is it?

Yes, it's astounding how often this correlated to having a biologically male reproductive system and primary sex characteristics, and the ability to impregnate women with sperm (whether the desire is present or not)

midgebabe · 19/12/2020 14:57

Since I know personally that trans explor8ng children are told to play up suicide angle, I don't think any self reported survey can unfortunately be believed

ArabellaScott · 19/12/2020 14:57

*OldCrone

What is your definition of 'male'?

I think it's a shifting constellation of bollocks or something.*

That's beautiful, Crone.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 14:58

Otherwise, the suicide attempt rate is something like 50%

That's not the suicide rate, is it?

ArabellaScott · 19/12/2020 14:59

Round like a circle in a spiral
Like a wheel within a wheel
Never ending nor beginning
On an ever spinning reel

Like a snowball down a mountain
Or a carnival balloon
Like a carousel that's turning
Running rings around the moon

Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space

Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

[Verse 2]
Like a tunnel you can follow
To a tunnel of its own
Down a hollow to a cavern
Where the sun has never shone

Like a door that keeps revolving
In a half forgotten dream
Or the ripples from a pebble
Someone tosses in a stream

Like a clock whose hands are sweeping
Past the minutes of its face
And the world is like an apple
Whirling silently in space

Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

[Verse 3]
Keys that jingle in your pocket
Words that jangle in your head
Why did Summer go so quickly
Was it something that you said?

Lovers walk along a shore
And leave their footprints in the sand
Was the sound of distant drumming
Just the fingers of your hand?

Pictures hanging in a hallway
Or the fragment of a song
Half remembered names and faces
But to whom do they belong?

When you knew that it was over
Were you suddenly aware
That the autumn leaves were turning
To the colour of her hair

[Conclusion]
A circle in a spiral
A wheel within a wheel
Never ending nor beginning
On an ever-spinning reel

As the images unwind
Like the circles that you find
In the windmills of your mind

Positrans · 19/12/2020 14:59

[quote HecatesCatsInXmasHats]We have reporting of the real risk of suicide in trans young people. I realise it's an uncomfortable topic on a forum like this, but it's a very real danger.

You may want to read this by Michael Biggs (Associate Professor of Sociology at the University of Oxford) its an analysis of trans suicide stats:

Although GIDS told me that it could not provide information before 2016, its websitete_ in 2017 stated that ‘suicide is extremely rare, with one case in the service in the last decade, of a young person in an inpatient ward who was referred with severe psychiatric difficulties.’*

www.transgendertrend.com/suicide-by-trans-identified-children-in-england-and-wales/[/quote]
Michael Biggs, who was caught using an account called "Henry Wimbush"?

www.oxfordstudent.com/2018/10/26/transphobic-tweets-linked-to-oxford-sociology-professor/

Not sure he's your best source.

Can someone please explain... (trans)
Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 14:59

It would be strange for so many suicide attempts not to result in many more completed suicides. It's fortunate and reassuring that that isn't the case.

Datun · 19/12/2020 15:00

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

Am I getting this correct... the poster with all the science quotes and posts believes that

a) doctors should work on implanting wombs (from dead or alive women) into biological males?

b) that this (including the presumably significant number of discarded embryos) is an ethical way to enabling ejaculators identifying as women to have children?

c) that there is no problem with infertility due to puberty blockers in children as presumably the doctors with the profound knowledge will solve the issue according to a and b?

Is it too early for gin Gin?

🤣🤣🤣 it's priceless.

And don't forget I don't agree that trans women are male, in case you hadn't noticed.

Honestly. Priceless.

And btw, posi, just a heads up. These pioneering, albeit unknown, and ostensibly rather unethical Scandinavian surgeons might get a little stumped when you tell them they need to remove the womb from a shifting constellation.

I'm just trying to help.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 19/12/2020 15:00

The survey is from the States Positrans, UK data doesn't back that up

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 15:00

Here's a survey of over 34,000 respondents, it is the largest survey of LGBTQ youth mental health ever conducted:

There you go again, with your links to US sites. We're in the UK. Most of your links aren't relevant to the UK.

GIDS is the only gender clinic for children in England and Wales. They say that suicide is extremely rare.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 19/12/2020 15:01

The data for the UK does not show high rates of suicide amongst trans youth.
Surely you should be happy about that?

Datun · 19/12/2020 15:01

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Otherwise, the suicide attempt rate is something like 50%

That's not the suicide rate, is it?

No, it's the rate at which I've laughed out loud on this thread.
Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 15:01

Not sure he's your best source.

Why does who he is affect his data? It comes from GIDs and the national suicide audit. Nice try.

SophocIestheFox · 19/12/2020 15:01

Absolutely the worst way to talk about suicide is to blame it on one factor, such as identifying as trans.

That’s pretty much guaranteed to cause increased suicidality and clusters of suicide attempts in groups of people who share that characteristic.

I won’t ever not be shocked by how transactivists talk about suicide. It’s mind boggling. Why would you want to increase the possibility of people you claim to be supporting killing themselves?

OldCrone · 19/12/2020 15:01

Not sure he's your best source

Why don't you read what he's written instead of ad hominems?

ArabellaScott · 19/12/2020 15:03

I think we usually get the (inaccurate) suicide stats thrown in as a sudden dead cat, don't we?

Ereshkigalangcleg · 19/12/2020 15:03

No, it's the rate at which I've laughed out loud on this thread.

The twisting, smearing, misinformation and gaslighting is quite something, even for the average MTF trans person "explaining to FWR" thread.

HecatesCatsInXmasHats · 19/12/2020 15:03

I won’t ever not be shocked by how transactivists talk about suicide. It’s mind boggling. Why would you want to increase the possibility of people you claim to be supporting killing themselves?

Why would you want to terrify young people into thinking they might end up suicidal if they don't go down a medical pathway? How is this a rational approach to the treatment of dysphoria?

PotholeParadies · 19/12/2020 15:05

For anyone who doesn't know anything about egg retrieval. If you read carefully, you will notice references to close monitoring. That's because the medical team are, amongst other things, looking out for Ovarian Hyperstimulation Syndrome. Younger women are at higher risk for it.

www.todaysparent.com/getting-pregnant/trying-to-conceive/what-egg-retrieval-is-really-like/

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ovarian_hyperstimulation_syndrome

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