Can someone please explain... (trans)

[WednesdayAllTheWay]

So I've been trying to follow this trans situation for a while but now having skin in the game in the form of a child (and also noting through work how more and more people are identifying as the opposite gender) I need to understand it better.
Feel slightly embarrassed asking but:

1. How exactly do the words sex and gender differ in this area?
2. What reasons do trans people give for wanting to change their physical bodies? As in what do people believe they will get from this that they couldn't get in the body they were born with?
3. What are children being taught at school about this?

Thanks!

I’m not sure whether I’m more amused at the shape shifting definition of woman that changes depending on time and location or the idea that my biological understanding of sex is wrong.

Even my woke niece who is studying biology understands the difference between sex and gender identity. One can be changed the other can’t.

The crap that people come out with is laughable, the idea that people can use this to trample all over women’s safety and rights is not so funny.

@Positrans thank you for taking the time and effort to respond, you have certainly lived up to my expectations.

@Winesalot

Being trans is a medical condition.

Having a medical condition does not give you the privilege to use other’s medical conditions the way you have been on this thread. What you may or may not believe, female’s medical conditions are not there to be politicized or used to justify medical procedures for males wanting to change their bodies for cosmetic purposes.

But please do continue to post. Everytime you do, more information is added to this thread. The readers do get to see alternative viewpoints and ‘educate’ themselves.

So you would object to people who draw analogies between being trans and anorexia, or body integrity identity disorder, or personality disorders where someone believes they are a famous historical figure?

It's a specific way of writing "trans woman" - it's meant to invalidate our identities.

Ha ha! Unlike a loose, shifting constellation of whatever.

Course, that's just the definition of a woman.

The definition of a man who identifies as a woman, has to have all the right letters, in the right order, with the right kind of punctuation!!!

🤣🤣🤣

“That's why for example, something like 87% of trans women have either had, or want to have vaginoplasty:”
Why, if their penis “is” female?

It's a specific way of writing "trans woman" - it's meant to invalidate our identities

OK, I'll humour you. What is a 'trans woman'? What is the 'trans' adjective describing? How does a 'trans woman' different from a 'black woman' (seeing as you always like to use that example?) and what do they have in common?

Sex is highly complex and the way we group sex characteristics together into particular groups and name them is cultural. At the moment, we just name two, which of course completely fails to describe the real world.

The real world in which there are just two sexes? In which both those sexes are needed to reproduce? It sums up that real world pretty well. Live your best life, but don't expect the rest of us to buy in to wild claims to prop up fantasies. Half (figure of speech, more probably) the kids on this pathway are going to end up wanting to settle down and have kids at some point, be they gay or straight, just like most people do. What's tragic for this generation is they'll have to run the gauntlet of medicalisation before they end up at the point in adulthood that most people get to (and we know they do because humans are still around). Meanwhile they've got older transitioners who've already had their families cheering them on the route to possible sterility. The real world will always frustrate you if you refuse to see it for what it is.

Things that trans boys and trans men, and many people with differences of sexual development have also been exposed to.

Yes!!!! We are going around in circles now. It has been pointed out already on this thread.

Feminism fights for the rights for females (those with bodies designed to support the production of large gametes) and not those identifying into the sex. Females includes transmen and NB people who have identified out of being described as a woman.

Again, you other people with DSDs. If they are female as they can now quite reliably be categorized, they are females and don’t need to be separated out. At all!

@Passmeabottlemrjones

It's a specific way of writing "trans woman" - it's meant to invalidate our identities

OK, I'll humour you. What is a 'trans woman'? What is the 'trans' adjective describing? How does a 'trans woman' different from a 'black woman' (seeing as you always like to use that example?) and what do they have in common?

A trans woman is a woman whose gender identity doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth.

Some trans women are black women, some are not, so some have lots on common with black women, some have less.

What is 'gender identity'?

@Winesalot

Things that trans boys and trans men, and many people with differences of sexual development have also been exposed to.

Yes!!!! We are going around in circles now. It has been pointed out already on this thread.

Feminism fights for the rights for females (those with bodies designed to support the production of large gametes) and not those identifying into the sex. Females includes transmen and NB people who have identified out of being described as a woman.

Again, you other people with DSDs. If they are female as they can now quite reliably be categorized, they are females and don’t need to be separated out. At all!

And to complete the circle, I don't agree with you that trans boys and men are female.

@ArabellaScott

What is 'gender identity'?

Scroll up.

Positrans

InterfectoremVulpes

Whats a transwoman?

It's a specific way of writing "trans woman" - it's meant to invalidate our identities.

Thank you for continuing to engage on this thread, Positrans and for the links that you have provided. I find it interesting to hear and read differing viewpoints.

WIth regard to the word transwoman - which puts you in a class of your own - why do you see that as invalidating your identity?

I am not a member of the group 'transwoman' because I am a woman. I do not see you as a member of the group 'woman' because you are a transwoman.

I guess I am struggling to understand why those who have gone through a process to be perceived as something other than the reality of their biology are not proud to be trans and accepted as such.

What does female feel like?

And to complete the circle, I don't agree with you that trans boys and men are female.

So how come trans boys and men are 'trans boys and men' then, and not just 'boys and men'? What does the 'trans' bit mean?

@NancyDrawed

Positrans

InterfectoremVulpes

Whats a transwoman?

It's a specific way of writing "trans woman" - it's meant to invalidate our identities.

Thank you for continuing to engage on this thread, Positrans and for the links that you have provided. I find it interesting to hear and read differing viewpoints.

WIth regard to the word transwoman - which puts you in a class of your own - why do you see that as invalidating your identity?

I am not a member of the group 'transwoman' because I am a woman. I do not see you as a member of the group 'woman' because you are a transwoman.

I guess I am struggling to understand why those who have gone through a process to be perceived as something other than the reality of their biology are not proud to be trans and accepted as such.

You will know from my posts that I consider trans women to be women and that gender identity is a reality of our our biology.

www.endocrine.org/advocacy/position-statements/transgender-health

I am proud to be a trans woman, and although I pass, I am very open about it.

It's a male who thinks they are a woman

So we have a transwoman who insists they are 100% female but then calls themselves a transwoman which is an acknowledgement that they aren't female at all. All whilst saying that sex isn't a male/female binary but a spectrum and transpeople are another sex on this spectrum but are actually male or female anyway.

Weird 🤔

Some trans women are black women, some are not, so some have lots on common with black women, some have less.

And those who have 'less' in common with black women - what do they have in common with black women?

A trans woman is a woman whose gender identity doesn't match the sex she was assigned at birth.

So what is a 'woman'? I don't want to know Shon Faye's definition, I want to know yours.

Mine is 'adult human female' by the way. Can you tell me why you don't believe that is an adequate description of 'woman'?

The definition is well know and very simple - gender identity is a person's innate sense of what sex they are.

This is certainly what it used to mean. It was an understanding gained by a person, normally at a very early age, of what sex they were, and that this couldn't be changed.

If you are using this original meaning of 'gender identity', then it is always the same as someone's sex, and it can't be changed. It's just not possible to have an innate sense that you are female if you are male. To experience such a thing would commonly be referred to as a delusion, i.e. a deep seated belief in something which is not true.

@Passmeabottlemrjones

And to complete the circle, I don't agree with you that trans boys and men are female.

So how come trans boys and men are 'trans boys and men' then, and not just 'boys and men'? What does the 'trans' bit mean?

"Trans" means that their gender identity doesn't match the sex they were assigned at birth.

You will know from my posts that I consider trans women to be women and that gender identity is a reality of our our biology.

Excellent description.

Sex isn't biology, nor are reproductive organs, or gametes.

Wanting to be the opposite sex is biology, and we should change all the laws designed to keep women safe, private, and alleviate their oppression from being based on the former, to being based on the latter which, by quite a remarkable coincidence, does the complete opposite. Hence Karen White.

Is everyone clear?

I don't agree with you that trans boys and men are female.

I think the evidence is on my side there, notwithstanding your fringe ideological worldview.

@Passmeabottlemrjones

Mine is 'adult human female' by the way. Can you tell me why you don't believe that is an adequate description of 'woman'?

Mine is the same as Shon's, but I also use "adult human female".