Nowhere is safe from preferred pronouns

[RoxyGrey]

I've seen it all now, just logged into a zoom meeting of fairly senior colleagues to see one had as their zoom name [name] (she/her). It was all I could do to hide my eye-roll.

I mean, why on earth did they feel it necessary to put their pronouns there?? Notably, no one else had theirs in their zoom name, even though some do have it in their email signature. It's not like there was any ambiguity in their appearance either, they were visibly feminine presenting so it's unlikely anyone would be confused.

So is this the next step in compelled speech? Anyone been asked/told to do this yet?

Personally, I don’t think it is anything to do with their name. As biscuits said, it seems as though it is for validation.

But I won’t be doing it when they have a name.

I'm not a fan of the term virtue signalling and not really allied to the types who tend to use it and yet...that's what this is. They're not helping you know how to refer to them, they're showing everyone that they believe in trans ideology and are adherents of that religion. Kind of like having your Zoom name as Wendy (Jesus is King)

*Why pronouns plural?

If I say my pronouns are "she" doesn’t her, her and hers follow without saying?*

My pronouns are they/its/myself.

I'm saving this to use to "out woke" (nice phrase whichever pp used it ) my employer if I ever get asked.

There was a University of Exeter study, which simply differentiated between the fake employees with the name Mark or Elizabeth and found:

^Managers who think gender bias no longer exists in the workplace are more likely to value male employees over women and give them higher wages, a study found.
Experts from Exeter University conducted an experiment where managers in a profession with a high proportion of women employees were asked to evaluate fake workers.^

www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-8464107/Managers-believe-gender-bias-workplace-no-longer-exists-likely-perpetuate-it.html

Makes you wonder why any woman would want to or should be asked to seal the deal with pronouns.

Plus the accidental incident that caused headlines:

^
A man realised women are treated differently in the workplace after he accidentally signed off on emails using his female co-worker's signature^.

www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/gender-inequality-man-woman-switch-names-week-martin-schneider-nicky-knacks-pay-gap-a7622201.html

Makes you wonder why any woman would want to or should be asked to seal the deal with pronouns.

Exactly this. The bias is so entrenched. How can it possibly help women to keep drawing attention their gender?!

I received what I thought was a bit of a narky email yesterday from someone with a female name. Then I thought "...hang on, if a man had sent me this would I have thought it was narky? Or just assertive?". Even I'm guilty of it and I'm a woman who reads Germaine bloody Greer!

Star Trek Discovery just went there. The current season happens in the 3200s or something and a character just introduced themself and announced their they/them pronouns. I guess they expect this bullshit to go on for a while!

Thanks for posting those links Hecates.
DD has added pronouns to her Instagram. I'm so ashamed for her. I suspect she's doing it to annoy me so haven't mentioned it but perhaps those links will disabuse her of her smug cleverness.

@Kettlingur I found the scene with Stamets and his husband discussing Adira, all the while dutifully using they/them pronouns, a) hard to follow (my brain struggled with it feeling overly wordy/complicated and the grammar being weird), and b) sanctimonious on the part of the writers to include 5 minutes of ‘performative allyship’ - it felt like we were being preached at. As a Trek fan, I’ve never had a problem with diversity but Trek has handled it with much more subtlety in previous years.

You don't have to walk on eggshells, that's ridiculous. If someone I worked with told me they would like to be he/him and they're obviously a woman I'd just call them what they asked because I'm a decent human and it genuinely doesn't affect me. They're not asking for you to call yourself something different, and you're not asking them to do it either. How does their identity compromise yours in any way? It doesn't. You're still you, they're still them. It costs nothing to be tolerant, it's far more effort to "walk on eggshells" because someone else has a preference.

So true, what is in those links, and I know that so well in my own job. Sometimes people battle with me over what are RULES (of a scheme) they are not up for negotiation but I find people try to get me to ''relax'' the rules of the scheme. They cannot be relaxed. I find it takes people longer to grasp this because I'm a woman. They honestly do go in to it thinking I'll say ''oh, leave it with me then''. And I have to tip toe round people trying to ask for what I need without being perceived to be ''rude''. Lived in fear of complaints at one point. I've heard a male colleague say to a customer ''you're wrong you're wrong you're wrong''. No complaint was made! Another male colleague was setting somebody's misunderstanding straight in such a blunt way, he said ''who told you that'' and I know if I'd handled those conversations, I would have done it more politely (because I have to in order to give people NO reasonable scope for complaints) and the conversations would have taken longer as people who don't like what they hear from a woman fight it harder. A woman might be wrong. A woman might back down. A woman might be told by her boss to make an exception for meeeeee if I complain!

So this is an excellent point and if my name weren't a part of my email address I"d like to just use my initial!

No way will I be talking about she/her

I specifically asked for my work email to be just an initial, wise.

Except of course it affects you. If a male colleague decides to transition, which toilet is he going to use, or if job requires changing, which changing room? Pronouns are like the little twiddly bow on top of a box of problems- they seem innocuous, but signify the start of co opting others into an ideology that to be frank very few people buy into. (This ideology also has some worrying issues which impinge on women's rights.)

Because, to be honest, it's quite far divorced from reality. It is not possible to change sex and we are a dimorphic sexual species. Of course, people are free to hold their own personal beliefs, but I am not required to, for instance, at the PBUH after every mention of 'God'. This should be unremarkable.

I'm sure Pips/Philip Bunce's colleagues used whichever stipulated pronouns were on any given day. In return, female staff got Pips in their staff toilet and the awards for best woman of the year given to someone whose workwear was something no female who wanted to be taken seriously would wear.

I got an email from someone with their pronouns in their name trying to sell me something . I deleted it.

It costs nothing to be tolerant, it's far more effort to "walk on eggshells" because someone else has a preference.

You're right. It is more effort to walk on eggshells. Which is why I've decided not to bother. I won't be calling people something that they are clearly not. No need to walk on eggshells. Of course if they don't want to be offended by that then it's best people don't try and drag me into their deluded ideology in the first place.

@Kaliorphic

It costs nothing to be tolerant, it's far more effort to "walk on eggshells" because someone else has a preference.

You're right. It is more effort to walk on eggshells. Which is why I've decided not to bother. I won't be calling people something that they are clearly not. No need to walk on eggshells. Of course if they don't want to be offended by that then it's best people don't try and drag me into their deluded ideology in the first place.

I agree with this

It’s more than that isn’t it. The ‘what next’, the so what does this mean for single sex facilities if we put so much emphasis on a airy fairy notion such as ‘gender’?

It’s a trend, a fad, and I am suspicious about the motives.

For every person who feels that this is absolutely the right thing and it makes them (or they think it will make ‘someone’ else) feel better, there are more people who feel uneasy, even scared (if they say the wrong thing what will the consequences be?).

@DetectiveRandySomething

You don't have to walk on eggshells, that's ridiculous. If someone I worked with told me they would like to be he/him and they're obviously a woman I'd just call them what they asked because I'm a decent human and it genuinely doesn't affect me. They're not asking for you to call yourself something different, and you're not asking them to do it either. How does their identity compromise yours in any way? It doesn't. You're still you, they're still them. It costs nothing to be tolerant, it's far more effort to "walk on eggshells" because someone else has a preference.

That’s great, well done you if you are able to instantly always say red is blue on those mismatch word/colour games - many of us just aren’t that deft at being able to lie with such ease just to make someone else happy; yours also comes across as a fairly disablist attitude, many neurodivergent people find it not only incredibly difficult to be required to deny what they know to be true, but also very distressing to be forced to do so - why is someone else’s preference more important than their distress? It’s not about any ‘compromise of our identity’ - massive strawman there - it’s about resisting compelled speech and compelled belief. The walking on eggshells is because people do not find it easy to comply with these requests, will naturally slip to telling the truth, and fear the consequences should they do so.

@DetectiveRandySomething But not everyone has the same work situation! I have over a hundred students. One of my students told me to refer to her as female (previously male and did not really look much different). I tried but did not always remember. Plus I am abroad and frequently "misgender" people anyway as I make mistakes in the language! Luckily said student is lovely and wasn't horrible about it but what would happen if they complained about me? What would happen if more students insisted on changing pronouns and I couldn't keep up? It's ridiculous to say it's easy to just use the correct pronouns because for a lot of people it really isn't.

I’ve seen a he/him twice.
Once for someone with whose name is a shortened version of Alexander and once for a guy who is ultra woke.
Other than that... all women.

I have a work colleague with she/ her in her email signature. I have started to notice that she refers to everyone as they/ them unless they have also stated their pronouns, so "Bob will be working from home on Friday. Please ensure you call them on their mobile on that day". It's one thing to announce your own preference but totally another to decide to revert to a default for everyone else.

I refuse to be complicit in small things that seemingly don’t matter because doing so has contributed to the normalisation of big things sneaking through and directly harming women and girls. Incorrect sex pronouns are just another part of the “veil” that the Dentons report wanted to create (whether it was directly mentioned or not) around secrecy, keeping things quiet and discreet.

I will not comply.

@DetectiveRandySomething

You don't have to walk on eggshells, that's ridiculous. If someone I worked with told me they would like to be he/him and they're obviously a woman I'd just call them what they asked because I'm a decent human and it genuinely doesn't affect me. They're not asking for you to call yourself something different, and you're not asking them to do it either. How does their identity compromise yours in any way? It doesn't. You're still you, they're still them. It costs nothing to be tolerant, it's far more effort to "walk on eggshells" because someone else has a preference.

No one should be expected to go along with other peoples deluded reality! I used to work in mental health, we had a patient who believed himself to be Jesus Christ (very common) we didn’t address him as “messiah” or “teacher” or indeed Jesus. All the wails of “beeeee kiiiiiinnnnddd” where’s the kindness for women and their concerns? Nowhere that’s where so pronouns can get right in the sea

fairplayforwomen.com/pronouns/

@Bbub

I'm saving this to use to "out woke" (nice phrase whichever pp used it ) my employer if I ever get asked.

Oh I love this!