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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Nowhere is safe from preferred pronouns

188 replies

RoxyGrey · 03/12/2020 17:13

I've seen it all now, just logged into a zoom meeting of fairly senior colleagues to see one had as their zoom name [name] (she/her). It was all I could do to hide my eye-roll.

I mean, why on earth did they feel it necessary to put their pronouns there?? Notably, no one else had theirs in their zoom name, even though some do have it in their email signature. It's not like there was any ambiguity in their appearance either, they were visibly feminine presenting so it's unlikely anyone would be confused.

So is this the next step in compelled speech? Anyone been asked/told to do this yet?

OP posts:
Grooticle · 03/12/2020 19:00

I was asked to state my preferred pronouns and they nagged me about it when I tried to ignore them, so I decided to out-woke them.

So I replied (at some length) explaining that

  • if everybody starts stating their preferred pronouns, that puts pressure on people who may still be considering/exploring their gender identity to declare one way or the other before they feel ready to come out as their true authentic selves, so it’s best if some of us just decline to state them
  • that stating or requiring people to use preferred pronouns could be very triggering for people struggling with gender identity
  • that stating or requiring pronouns could be very confusing and stressful for people on the autistic spectrum or who are otherwise neuro-divergent

And that therefore I had decided to take a principled stand that I was not prepared to publicly state my preferred pronouns, or pressure anybody else to do so, but that for the avoidance of doubt I would certainly not be offended if people chose to refer to me using the pronouns which match my biological sex.

It’s all just such such bollocks, but if you work in an environment where you can’t say that I think being even more woke is the way to go :)

ArabellaScott · 03/12/2020 19:02

@EmpressWitchDoesntBurn

Compelled pronouns are against the Yogyakarta Principles - can’t remember which bit exactly but it’s not ok to make people state their gender.
Section 6, I believe. Smile
Siameasy · 03/12/2020 19:07

My work - male dominated and not woke. Diversity person has them. It will never catch on here and I will refuse, they can sack me, I have no fear of discomfort...see you at the tribunal (they won’t)

accessorizequeen · 03/12/2020 19:08

@DidoLamenting

twitter.com/redbreastedbird/status/1333869606835019777?s=20

Here's the excuse not to use them. It's very inconsiderate to compel the use of pronouns.

I thought this was having a laugh until I checked the account. Confused
DidoLamenting · 03/12/2020 19:23

No it is serious- and actually the Twitterer has a point as Arabella and Grooticle have explained.

nickymanchester · 03/12/2020 19:26

@Grooticle

So I replied (at some length) explaining that...

Grin I am so going to steal that and use it myself (if you don't mind)

Passmeabottlemrjones · 03/12/2020 19:29

"Drawing attention to the fact that I'm female has not served me well in the past"

I think this is a perfect reply - woke mate!

I am unlikely to ever need to state my pronouns in my line of work, but if I did, this would be my reply.

JoodyBlue · 03/12/2020 19:34

I do believe the argument is in solidarity with trans employees. However, the way that it is pushed has more of a feel of compulsion about it. I am not prepared to be compelled to say black is blue I'm afraid. I would probably do it out of politeness if it felt like a choice. It increasingly feels mandatory. That is why I don't want to.

Greentrianglequalitystreet · 03/12/2020 19:35

A holiday club I use emailed to ask me what are my DS, age 6, preferred pronouns. I just ignored it.

LizzieSiddal · 03/12/2020 19:43

A holiday club I use emailed to ask me what are my DS, age 6, preferred pronouns

What the heck?!

dumpling23 · 03/12/2020 19:45

Agreed - it's absolutely painful to see educated women who are obviously female putting she/her on their zoom call - and I'm saying women because in the past month I've seen around ten women doing this and only one man. Funny how this stating the blindingly obvious in order to make other people (but who exactly? It's all a bit of a mystery) feel at ease, has become filed under Women's Work ...

I'm part of a members organisation (in academia) and it's been just awful watching the President - Professor Pronoun - and her small inner coterie of female academics and female office staff all with their '[name] /she/hers' on zoom. Sometimes there's been more than a hundred members on the call, and not a single one has their pronouns. I think it makes Professor Pronoun and the leadership of the organisation look utterly out of touch with the members they're supposed to be representing and working for. To say nothing of the fact that it reveals they've signed up to an anti-science belief system, which does not exactly betoken intelligence or good judgement ...

Greentrianglequalitystreet · 03/12/2020 19:47

LizzieSiddal that’s exactly what I thought!

TheLadyOfShallnott · 03/12/2020 19:48

Moi aussi if you don’t mind @Grooticle and also @carlaCox

The company is starting to get quite insistent that we state we are this or that. Whether it be religion, colour or whatever. They want to be all cuddly and inclusive.

I will not be stating pronouns. They can do one.

They want to be all wokitywoke and they can if they like. I will pay no heed.

They will not allow bullying of people for religion or because they identify as x, y or z but are happy to do sweet Fanny adams about the bullying of women.

It is shameful.

legallybland · 03/12/2020 19:52

has anyone seen he/him declared? I've only ever seen she / her / they / them.

TheLadyOfShallnott · 03/12/2020 19:56

No. I have seen no he/hims.

Funny that.

FurryGiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:00

I'm an academic and lots of the central University and Faculty staff display their pronouns on Zoom. Not the academic staff so much. One keen young lecturer did suggest to me that we should encourage students to put their pronouns on Zoom in our online teaching etiquette guide. I gently suggested that this was entirely redundant. The one fantastic thing about teaching on Zoom is that you know everyone's name! There is no need to fudge your way past your name ignorance with 'as she said' any more!

FurryGiraffe · 03/12/2020 20:01

No. I have seen no he/hims.

I've seen a couple. Far more she/hers though.

babbaloushka · 03/12/2020 20:04

One girl at daughter's school goes by kitten/kittenself. Apparently these are 'neopronouns'. Hmm

Blibbyblobby · 03/12/2020 20:09

I suspect it's coming at my place. I'm going to go for some of the new gender-neutral ones. I've always felt gendered pronouns to be an anachronism so while I don't mind being she by default, I'm not actively signing up for it.

accessorizequeen · 03/12/2020 20:13

@DidoLamenting

No it is serious- and actually the Twitterer has a point as Arabella and Grooticle have explained.
Ah I went back and checked. The link showed a different tweet to the image - considerably more woke! I see what you mean about compelled pronouns.
MissLucyEyelesbarrow · 03/12/2020 20:24

I have seen quite a few trans people on social media saying that they dislike being asked to state pronouns, because it focuses attention on sex/gender, whereas they just want to pass. And I notice that neither of the trans people whom I occasionally work with state their pronouns in emails (in the NHS, so they could definitely do so, if they chose).

This whole thing seems to be more about virtue-signalling by self-declared allies.

gottakeeponmovin · 03/12/2020 20:31

I I've managed to go 40 years with everyone getting my pronouns correct so I do t feel the need to state them

Stellaris22 · 03/12/2020 20:36

I fully understand stating 'they/them' as preferred pronouns as that is never obvious. I find it's great for the person to state that straight away to avoid awkward situations.

Regardless of your views on this, it's about making sure everyone is comfortable. I'm more than happy to be told a persons favoured pronouns.

It's not harming or affecting you. It's at best a mild irritation/annoyance, but for that person makes them feel more secure. It's certainly not worth getting angry about.

BolloxtoGender · 03/12/2020 20:40

Or an attention seeker who wants compel others to make them feel special.

Stellaris22 · 03/12/2020 20:46

Oh. Ok then .......

Or maybe that person is fed up of politely explaining this.

Even if it is, as you claim, attention seeking. Does it affect you other than annoying you?