Keira

[YouNoob]

Live tweets from Belstaffie here:

mobile.twitter.com/Belstaffie/status/1333716720176033793

Susie Green is so irresponsible. Her whole mission in life is built around proving she wasn't wrong in the way she treated her child.

Yep.

It's all over for SG.

Mermaids' raison d'etre is to tell kids they will kill themselves without puberty blockers - which the courts have now said is without foundation. This is a "treatment" which cannot be consented to by children.

SG's own child has now been demonstrated to have had a treatment to which they could not have consented.

What a fucking waste of SG's life. If if weren't for the harm that Mermaids has done I would feel sorry for her and the rest of the Mermaids crew. I predict it will fold within a year.

@ItsAllGoingToBeFine

EM: Evidence for treatment lacking. Extra protection good thing.

SG: What other treatment pathway require court to access? Breadth of international evidence shows positive outcomes.

She keeps saying it like it's a great big gotcha, but it really isn't. What other treatment pathway takes a child with no physical health problems and leaves them a sterile, sexually dysfunctional permanent medical patient with missing body parts?

Going through puberty can be extremely distressing but support will help people, not convince them it's a disaster.

Like Susie Green just did.
"TO LIVE WITHOUT THE TORTURE THAT IS PUBERTY"
Fuck me, and this woman's org receives lottery money

I thought I'd follow how this was going down on twitter as the interviews went on. According to the twitter audience Susie Green went down very badly indeed. People really are waking up to this now. The response to Keira Bell was very positive, naturally.

@JoodyBlue

I am still upset at the insinuation in this interview and earlier on R4 that Keira bears ANY responsibility for teens now wanting PBs. I find that quite immoral questioning. I am surprised and unimpressed at EM for that. Apart from that good job.

I thought it was a bit incongruous and that Maitlis pushed rather hard - I assumes it was the BBC trying to show they were unbiased

@Callmejudith

I want to imagine that Maitlis told Keira to leave the sofa and that she’d be tearing SG a new one

"You get off and have a drink love, I've got this."

Puberty is shit for pretty much everyone Suze, but that doesn’t mean it’s ok to medicate it away!

And you have a bunch of adults in positions of influence like Susie Green going around shouting 'suicide' in a manner which goes against press guidelines because of the nature of social contagion on the subject of suicide.

Yep. Great bit of responsibility there.

It’s actually callous and very cruel. Their immediate priority should be how they are going to support their service users. “Wouldn’t have been great if instead Susie had said: yes, we are very disappointed with the judgement and will work with the Tavi on their appeal. In the meantime, we know there will be a lot of very anxious children and families tonight. I can assure you our trained counsellors and support teams will be contacting them over the coming days to check in with them, we’ll be putting details about support measures on our website by (day/time) and working with GIDS, CAMHS and other support services to see our families through this difficult time.” Instead she’s just poured petrol on those fears and lit a match. Grossly irresponsible.

For anyone who is unaware of Susie Green this is a transcript of a Ted talk she did about her and her child's journey.

www.ted.com/talks/susie_green_transgender_a_mother_s_story/transcript?language=en

It is a very worthwhile read, and very revealing.

Well I just watched. Where was all this international evidence? How on earth can she sit there saying this stuff when they were given the chance to present all this yet failed to produce anything if adequate standard.

Wasnt the time fir Dutch studies facts and figures weeks ago? Not an interview where you blackmail viewers with suicide even the GIDS website says is rare?

What the heck is that all about

"You get off and have a drink love, I've got this."

Numbers and statistics can be problematic for most people (me) to understand, so I used my trusty calculator to try to understand paragraph 58:

1648 patients were discharged in one particular year period.
312 were sampled - that's a fifth of the total
of those, 16% accessed endocrinology

but 16% of the total 1648 = 264 patients who possibly accessed endocrinology

55% of the 312 sample went on to cross-sex hormones
but 55% of the 264 = 145

and 145 / 1648 = 8.7%
which presumably means my calculations are correct?

But percentages are difficult to imagine, so I looked again at the actual numbers.

1648 patients in one year who were discharged. The two nearest senior schools (11-16) each have around that number of pupils on roll.

145 who accessed cross-sex hormones. That's the equivalent of four (?) secondary school classes.

I know there's a danger with playing about with numbers and percentages, especially as GIDS was presumably at that time the only service in England & Wales, so the raw numbers would be spread over a large geographical area. But I found when I started to try to relate the raw numbers to something my mind could grasp, it's just extraordinary/heartbreaking to think that the equivalent of the 1648 total patients is the whole of the secondary school just round the corner from me.

Apart from anything else, Susie Green saying that X (lack of PBs in this case) makes children suicidal is breathtakingly appalling. It's not only in incredibly bad taste and ill-informed as to the causes of suicide, it breaches the guidelines on reporting on suicide.
Weaponising suicide so blatantly is disgusting and it will surely prevent any sensible, reasoned discussion of suicidality in teens.

@JoodyBlue

I am still upset at the insinuation in this interview and earlier on R4 that Keira bears ANY responsibility for teens now wanting PBs. I find that quite immoral questioning. I am surprised and unimpressed at EM for that. Apart from that good job.

Yes, it's not Keira's fault. It's an awful question.

You'd think the people treating children in this way would actually bother to check beforehand if the children could consent legally or not? Did they just assume Gillick applied, or what? How the hell did this happen, who gave it the green light?

This shitshow is on the 'professionals'. Keira can hold her head high.

@nauticant

I thought I'd follow how this was going down on twitter as the interviews went on. According to the twitter audience Susie Green went down very badly indeed. People really are waking up to this now. The response to Keira Bell was very positive, naturally.

Which twitter audience, Nauticant? The GCs, the trans activists or generally?

Exactly, boatyardblues.
Its almost as if greens mission isnt to support trans children but to convince herself that what she did to her own child was right.
Shes so invested in the suicide narrative, its really ghoulish and irresponsible.

If Keira, Mrs A and Sue Evans ever read this - thanks for your bravery, integrity, and grace under fire. You're all truly impressive women.

A useful thread about the Dutch tests. Shame Susie obviously hasn't read it.

twitter.com/zaneemma/status/1332930732558221312?s=21

@nauticant

Susie Green has no option but to double down. We've also said that here.

Remember that it was only reecently that Mermaids dumped one of their articles of faith "born in the wrong body" in a trice when they realised they couldn't sustain it. But now we're at the fundamentals that Mermaids cannot risk dropping*, that not giving puberty blockers is the cruelest thing imaginable, so cruel that it kills. However, for this to hold it requires the holiest of holies to hold: trans kids do not detransition. If detransitioners exist in a way that is other than freakishly rare, it all falls apart. Green knows she's looking at an existential threat.

*to acknowledge this would break Green herself

Absolutely nailed it Nauticant. Hours before the broadcast.

Yes, it's not Keira's fault. It's an awful question.

She was 16. Journalists need to let the rainbow covered scales fall from their eyes and see the lives behind the lobbying and the slogans. The T has always been at odd with the LGB.

I had "bbcnewsnight OR newsnight" as search terms YouNoob. Maybe about 1 in 20 supporting Green. It even pulled up tweets like this:

twitter.com/elegriffiths/status/1333918558116515842

If there is all this worldwide evidence why didn't the tavi produce it in court?

She keeps saying it like it's a great big gotcha, but it really isn't. What other treatment pathway takes a child with no physical health problems and leaves them a sterile, sexually dysfunctional permanent medical patient with missing body parts?

It's not true that treatment for other children isn't contested. We've seen a number of high profile cases of ill children go to the courts in the last few years over the question of experimental treatments (often abroad).

In those cases the children are either seriously or terminally ill and the courts still make judgements in the best interests of the child and not emotive arguments by adults, clinicians or lobby groups.

@MoonPomme

Exactly, boatyardblues. Its almost as if greens mission isnt to support trans children but to convince herself that what she did to her own child was right. Shes so invested in the suicide narrative, its really ghoulish and irresponsible.

Yes.

She even claimed to have been ‘working‘ in the field for 21 years, yet she didn’t become a Mermaids employee until 2016, so she must consider raising a trans child to be ‘work’.