International day for the elimination of violence against women

[Kit19]

refreshingly for the UN they seem to be talking about women and girls....

Yes, I need my bed too. But I completely understand what you're saying. People often find it hard to empathise with the experiences of others, even if they are generally empathetic people, if that makes sense. Men, especially, tend to think that they have it tough by having to, often unwillingly, fight in the male order of hierarchy but they also forget that women are viewed as somewhere below the weakest man when it comes to this primal benchmark.

I'm not talking about general respect for people, but more the scale of who you are prepared to challenge with a "what are you going to do about it?" when they point out that they jumped the queue etc.

I think/ wonder if the masculinity is a given by their size and that frees them up a bit with gender role.

A very good point.

I work with a lot of truckers, and no doubt they take the piss out of me, but I can get away with bringing in my own teapot and brewing a rather delicate tea in the canteen without too much of a ribbing. I only just about got away with the jumper my partner knitted me though. 😳😂

With age I have become convinced that violence is almost integral to the male experience, even if in a subliminal way

I think many men are sexist because ultimately they don't feel 'threatened' enough by women. In the same way,

With these two sentences and have described the basis of the patriarchy.

I think it's only been by reading these boards that I understood the shocking basis of women's second class status throughout the world is because men are physically stronger than them.

And because violence is integral to men's experience it's i far too many women suffer from it.

And have was meant to be you have

re. the letter to the Indenpendent Olivia Coleman etc.. They seem to have gone all groiniad, and comments that were previously shown are now saying pending, and a friend who posted a comment in reasonable language has had hers deleted, although it was okay on the first day.

So not just publishing a stupid letter and then censor those who point out its faults.

Free speech does not exist for all.

So there’s a chance the first time these ding-dongs realise what a sour note the letter AND the date it landed rang will be when people spot them in the street? ‘OI COLEMAN/P’LOMA! ARE HAVIN’ A LAUGH OR DO YOU JUST HATE WIMMIN??’

So in the end I suppose after that late night chat

I come to understand that it really is all about the men.

They are having their hierarchical infights and what have you whether they want to our not.

I've seen it at work. A lot. I find it baffling and weird. Proper dick swinging.

And of course women aren't even near the bottom of that hierarchy.

So if the men, at least most of them, are busy struggling with this hierarchy and it's really important to them. It's no fucking wonder that women struggle to get voices heard.

Other movements have men in them. Men can get that. Gay men. Black men. Disabled men. Should be allowed into this hierarchy. To fight for their place as an equal man.

So many men say I didn't give a fuck about women or girls (short version) until I had a daughter.

So this is going to be an eternal fight just to stand still, really, for women isn't it?

Our rights are being rolled back all over the place with little pause from the lawmakers.

Our position as the ones who bear the brunt of it when things go to shit (household, local, national, global level disasters) is taken for granted.

And even the nice good men who get all this. They don't actually do anything do they. No offence to PP. or my DH. But it's lip service.

Men who say hello I'm a feminist are usually best avoided...

So we just have to keep fighting. I'm up for that I think.

There was someone - I think Bea Campbell - who said it was as those the most women could hope for is that when there were good times men would allow us a few small tit bits from the table, but otherwise there was no time or consideration for us.

I am probably less acutely aware of the things many women experience in their daily lives, but I think that the world is perhaps increasingly becoming one where women can 'compete' with men more than they could in our great grandfathers' era, because battles are now fought with technology/information etc. There is no doubt a long way to go, but a woman can manage a man at work and effectively be his 'superior' in a way that I think would have raised eyebrows a few generations ago. Some men might not like this of course, but when the job pays the bills/facilitates one's life, and your female boss is the one who you need to not piss off to keep this job....well, many men will know when to pick their battles I think.

I still think maternity is one of the biggest obstacles to overcome in allowing women to truly become men's peers as honestly this seems to be the point where so many women 'slip behind' or have to 'choose' between their job and their child.

As a woman I would say that your perception is not accurate.

Where we advance in some ways we get pushed back in others.

In my industry observing for years. Men resent female managers. Etc.

Maternity leave is a year. I know plenty of men who have taken a sabbatical. No impact on career, if anything applauded.

Probably not the thread for it.

You are right that the default of childcare/ childcare costs falling to women is an issue.

What is also an issue though is that for women working/ or not working is not a choice but a financial decision but based on often wonky sums.

Also. Many men/ women want to be around for their kids esp when young.

So we have people doing stuff they don't want to when a more flexible approach would mean both men and women could balance their lives better.

IME there are a load of men who appreciate flexible working and do pick ups and dentist and what not. But another load who stay late on purpose to avoid bathtime etc.

Point is they choose. I've not worked with any women who had that choice in reality.

And then pensions etc.

The whole system is set up in a certain way.

The idea that it's just maternity that fucks up women's careers is simplistic.

Not least because we're the only ones who can do it... Men want babies too. If all the women said no babies because of all this the men would not be keen. That is often overlooked.

Indeed it is only a year, but I wonder whether this then sets the woman up as 'the carer', who then goes on to continue doing all the childcare at the expense of her job. For whatever reasons it seems to be the point at which I've seen many women I know go from being extremely career focused to never really getting back on that train.

My sister was the only woman in her team for years (high tech defence related job) but she now only works three days a week and has no intention of returning full time. But maybe she's not a good example as she seems perfectly happy and they quite honestly are rolling in money anyway.

I'll admit though that this is a bit of a blind spot for me as I've never really wanted children - quite possibly because I hated my office job until changing career around 30 and have only really had a few years of not being stressed every single day. Most of my mates have kids but I've never experienced the daily reality aside from looking after my godson and nieces who are all spectacularly well behaved.

@RoyalCorgi

Let's not forget Reni Eddo-Lodge, Zarah Sultana MP and Nadia Whittome MP. Anyone else seen Nadia's delightful tweet?

Yup and she's getting her arse kicked into orbit for it

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8997413/Event-dedicated-stopping-violence-against-women-hijacked-trendy-campaigns.html

A good article from the dm- they are getting busy :-))

Thanks for sharing. That is a good article.

And even the nice good men who get all this. They don't actually do anything do they. No offence to PP. or my DH. But it's lip service.

Quite. I've heard it from lovely men in my own family, DBs, DF and male friends. My DF actually said "but that's nothing to do with me" (and so is not interested.) It wasn't until I pointed out the impact on me and his GDs that suddenly he was livid and writing to his MP - and that's the property thing at play.

Men don't need to care about stuff affecting women because it isn't a problem for them. That gets left to the PA class of human.

Thank you for the article gardenbird.

Pleased to see they put the actual stats in there. I'm so sick of seeing lies with no stats to back them up being spread in the media, so that was refreshing.

@MichelleofzeResistance

And even the nice good men who get all this. They don't actually do anything do they. No offence to PP. or my DH. But it's lip service.

Quite. I've heard it from lovely men in my own family, DBs, DF and male friends. My DF actually said "but that's nothing to do with me" (and so is not interested.) It wasn't until I pointed out the impact on me and his GDs that suddenly he was livid and writing to his MP - and that's the property thing at play.

Men don't need to care about stuff affecting women because it isn't a problem for them. That gets left to the PA class of human.

It’d certainly be a problem for me if my partner was assaulted or killed. But I do agree that it’s hard to know what to actually do in real life. My job involves driving around city centres in the evening, so prior to lockdown I’ve seen loads of violent drunken behaviour over the years, mainly on Thur/Friday nights.

A fair few times I’ve seen couples screaming at each other outside bars and getting close to physical violence, and you never know which two couples are going to be the two out of many million who go home and have an argument which ends with a homicide. It’s not my intention to sound dismissive, I honestly don’t know how I can reach violent men. People will take drugs, start fights and do many other things which aren’t legal so I’m not sure this is something that legislation can fix. Higher penalties might help, but honestly in the heat of the moment is it really going to even register.