Breastfeeding support group wants to allow males

[user643899]

I am in a Facebook group for breastfeeding support.

There's a new comment from admin asking if we'd be comfortable with males joining the group, then a subsequent poll.

I commented on said poll, "I am a feminist. Call me a terf. Biologically you are male or female. Feel free to identify as what you wish but you cannot change your sex. This group is for breastfeeding. Only females can breastfeed."

I was called a bigot. One comment read, "you aren't a feminist. Feminists want equality for all genders." I responded,"Equality for both sexes, yes. Female is a sex. Feminism derives from the word, female."

Now my original comment has been deleted. I daren't comment again through fear of removal.

I'm upset. This is the group I used when I had thrush. I posted pictures of the thrush on my boob. I can't be comfortable in a group made for my sex.

Presumably for the same reason they wanted to give birth and breastfeed a baby at all?

And what reason is that?

@Ereshkigalangcleg

Im as feminist as you can be and as anti terf as you can be

No, you aren't. If you have any issue with this, that puts you soundly in the "terf" category to most TRAs. I'm not sure what you imagine gender critical feminists believe?

Did you actually read what I wrote?

I'm asking where it ends? I absolutely am anti-terf. I want equality for everyone so that puts me firmly in the feminist category. Ill fight for peoples rights to be free and make themselves happy. I wouldnt ever deny someone be who they want to be. I have 2 trans members (my closest cousin is transitioning) of family who wouldnt dare think that just because they are m2f that they could join an ovarian cancer group or a breastfeeding group. They are women but they understand that biology will lean a certain way for them.

Denying actual biology is lunacy.

@user643899

Presumably for the same reason they wanted to give birth and breastfeed a baby at all?

And what reason is that?

Well that is a good question, I don't know! But if they have given birth and are breastfeeding a child as a female, then I don't see why they can't access support like any other female? The only thing I would object to is if they insisted that everyone used 'chestfeeding', 'birthing bodies' etc.

I have read the whole thread and have seen your clarification but your first few posts were quite confusing and I don't really understand why you said 'males' in your title and OP when that's not what you meant?

Well that is a good question, I don't know! But if they have given birth and are breastfeeding a child as a female, then I don't see why they can't access support like any other female? The only thing I would object to is if they insisted that everyone used 'chestfeeding', 'birthing bodies' etc.
Who said they can't access support?

I have read the whole thread and have seen your clarification but your first few posts were quite confusing and I don't really understand why you said 'males' in your title and OP when that's not what you meant?
I did mean males. Transwomen are male.
You understand what I mean so I won't continue a debate on this.
The thread is about another safe space being taken away.

@Duckwit but is it the most appropriate place for a transman to get support? If their presence as male-looking people unsettles the women in the group, is this ok? How would they know that they are actually female?

Why are you so invested in this particular point? Are you a breastfeeding mother? A chest feeding transman? Come on, show your hand...

I did mean males. Transwomen are male.

And transmen are female. So if they were talking about allowing transwomen and transmen then they weren't just talking about males were they?

People were clearly confused by what you said at the start of this thread as we all assumed you meant allowing fathers into the group, because you hadn't mentioned transgender at all?

Anyway, I agree with you - transwomen should not be allowed into an online breastfeeding support group. Transmen are female and should be allowed into the group (IMO)

@Doublebubblebubble but if you believe in biological sex, then you are a terf, according to every TRA going.

@Duckwit

I did mean males. Transwomen are male.

And transmen are female. So if they were talking about allowing transwomen and transmen then they weren't just talking about males were they?

People were clearly confused by what you said at the start of this thread as we all assumed you meant allowing fathers into the group, because you hadn't mentioned transgender at all?

Anyway, I agree with you - transwomen should not be allowed into an online breastfeeding support group. Transmen are female and should be allowed into the group (IMO)

From my OP:

"I am a feminist. Call me a terf. Biologically you are male or female. Feel free to identify as what you wish but you cannot change your sex. This group is for breastfeeding. Only females can breastfeed."

I didn't state it was just about males. I picked the thing I have a problem with. Males joining the group.

[quote HotGlueGun]@Duckwit but is it the most appropriate place for a transman to get support? If their presence as male-looking people unsettles the women in the group, is this ok? How would they know that they are actually female?

Why are you so invested in this particular point? Are you a breastfeeding mother? A chest feeding transman? Come on, show your hand...[/quote]
😂

My breastfeeding days are well and truly over!

I just believe that, as females, transmen should be allowed into a group that is for females, and I was a bit confused as to why the OP referred to transmen as 'males' that's all.

@Duckwit Why are you so stuck on points that have been clarified?
You seem hell bent on deflecting from the topic.

They are women but they understand that biology will lean a certain way for them.

Denying actual biology is lunacy.

You're not "anti terf". You simply misunderstand what a "terf" is. You subscribe to gender ideology to a point, but what you don't seem to realise is that the majority of trans rights activists now do deny actual biology. They use all manner of gotchas to claim that biological sex doesn't exist or isn't possible to define. You are simply very naive and not particularly well informed.

Also, in what way are they women if not biologically so? You are trying to humour them and affirm your "anti terf" beliefs, as well as hold on to what you know to be true. It won't cut any ice with most TRAs, I'm afraid. Say that biological sex exists and females are different to males, and males shouldn't be joining a women only breastfeeding group, and you might as well be JK Rowling.

@Doublebubblebubble When you say you are anti-TERF, what do you believe TERF to mean?

I was a bit confused as to why the OP referred to transmen as 'males' that's all.

Where did i call transmen males?

Would it be ok to say that there is no issue with transmen or with any other female who needs to use the group for education and support to assist in breastfeeding their baby. That is the very reason for the group to exist. But not for males, irrespective of how they personally identify.

I breastfed in the past and don't know why I would join a breastfeeding group now. Maybe to give support by sharing my experience and give tips as so many women of the past few generations haven't breastfed in the UK. This means women can't always ask their mother or auntie. However, I'm wouldn't be a great addition as I'm not an expert and am rusty to boot. These breastfeeding mothers are the thing to focus on and any breastfeeding mother in the group should come before any male or other women.

Maybe like with AA, they could set up a family and support group separately for those groups. Even then, I can't see what would be the function of a breastfeeding group for a group of males who have no connection to a breastfeeding mother. I can't even imagine it being set up in my breastfeeding days. I don't see a point other than entertainment or titillation (sic) for the males involved.

@Cailleach1

Would it be ok to say that there is no issue with transmen or with any other female who needs to use the group for education and support to assist in breastfeeding their baby. That is the very reason for the group to exist. But not for males, irrespective of how they personally identify.

I breastfed in the past and don't know why I would join a breastfeeding group now. Maybe to give support by sharing my experience and give tips as so many women of the past few generations haven't breastfed in the UK. This means women can't always ask their mother or auntie. However, I'm wouldn't be a great addition as I'm not an expert and am rusty to boot. These breastfeeding mothers are the thing to focus on and any breastfeeding mother in the group should come before any male or other women.

Maybe like with AA, they could set up a family and support group separately for those groups. Even then, I can't see what would be the function of a breastfeeding group for a group of males who have no connection to a breastfeeding mother. I can't even imagine it being set up in my breastfeeding days. I don't see a point other than entertainment or titillation (sic) for the males involved.

I totally agree but their argument is that men can chest feed so they should be allowed to join a breastfeeding group.

It sounds like you got on your high horse about trans issues when they were probably just asking because some fathers wanted to learn about breastfeeding

This - your OP sounds like they were talking about letting males join, which I took (and by the looks of it, others too) that they weren't even talking about trans people, were talking about Dads?
Which is probably why you got the response you did for jumping straight to trans, and terf response

I’m with you on this OP.

When I joined my Bf group on Facebook I didn’t have an account previously but because of covid I had no support so had to make a Facebook account to join the group. I had no info or photos and I was challenged by admin to prove who I was because the group was a safe space for women.

After explaining they allowed me in and I found it invaluable, sharing photos of latch and so on I just wouldn’t do that in a group that had anything other than females that were born females.

@Quaagars

It sounds like you got on your high horse about trans issues when they were probably just asking because some fathers wanted to learn about breastfeeding

This - your OP sounds like they were talking about letting males join, which I took (and by the looks of it, others too) that they weren't even talking about trans people, were talking about Dads?
Which is probably why you got the response you did for jumping straight to trans, and terf response

I can't argue with you Quaagers as I respect you too much

I did clarify this upthread. I haven't posted the OP as I don't want to be outed but it was regarding trans issues.

I’m not sure this thread is making sense

Thank Gawd it's not just me lol

Personally I would expect members of a breastfeeding group to be people who are breastfeeding. What gender you call yourself is irrelevant - the question is are you breastfeeding a baby? It’s a self selecting sample because only some people are physically capable of breastfeeding a baby.

I totally agree but their argument is that men can chest feed so they should be allowed to join a breastfeeding group.

'Chestfeeding' does not refer to transwomen (males) - it refers to transmen who are breastfeeding and do not want to use the word 'breast'. They need to brush up on their lingo!

I think I understand what you were saying in your OP now, but, as you can see from the first couple of pages of the thread, it was very confusing! It would have been less confusing if you had just said 'transwomen'.

Cross posted

@FTEngineerM

I’m with you on this OP.

When I joined my Bf group on Facebook I didn’t have an account previously but because of covid I had no support so had to make a Facebook account to join the group. I had no info or photos and I was challenged by admin to prove who I was because the group was a safe space for women.

After explaining they allowed me in and I found it invaluable, sharing photos of latch and so on I just wouldn’t do that in a group that had anything other than females that were born females.

This must be how they vet members.

I had to go in and delete all my photos in the group.

Latch is a huge part of breastfeeding and it's something that requires pictures, I don't understand why any group would allow males to stare at breasts.

I don't understand what the issue is that people are having with this thread. The group admins asked if the group was happy to admit transwomen, and OP said she'd prefer it to remain solely female, and her comment got deleted. She is upset that the group admins clearly are going to let transwomen in. In my opinion she is entirely justified in her upset!

But what reason would anyone who’s not breastfeeding have for being in a breastfeeding group? They don’t need to mention gender at all. Just restrict it to anyone who is currently feeding a baby.