Breastfeeding support group wants to allow males

[user643899]

I am in a Facebook group for breastfeeding support.

There's a new comment from admin asking if we'd be comfortable with males joining the group, then a subsequent poll.

I commented on said poll, "I am a feminist. Call me a terf. Biologically you are male or female. Feel free to identify as what you wish but you cannot change your sex. This group is for breastfeeding. Only females can breastfeed."

I was called a bigot. One comment read, "you aren't a feminist. Feminists want equality for all genders." I responded,"Equality for both sexes, yes. Female is a sex. Feminism derives from the word, female."

Now my original comment has been deleted. I daren't comment again through fear of removal.

I'm upset. This is the group I used when I had thrush. I posted pictures of the thrush on my boob. I can't be comfortable in a group made for my sex.

I’m not sure this thread is making sense.

Keep reiterating that you aren’t comfortable in a mixed sex support group, (and refer back to your photo etc). Try to keep the focus on the need for female only support.

Its so fucking frustrating that we are currently being dragged back to before we could have women only groups/spaces etc!

I'm a bit confused by your post tbh. I assume that they either want to allow transmen to join in a "people of any gender can breastfeed" sense, or transwomen in a "I'm a fantasist looking for validation" sense. The former I'd have no problem with as long as it wasn't the start of endless language policing within the group. The latter not so much, for obvious reasons.

The breastfeeding group I'm in is for breastfeesing mums and their partners but I can count on one hand the number of posts I've seen by people with male names. One of them made a fuss about women in the group starting posts like "hey ladies" and the response was almost 100% "get over it or fuck off". Realistically the set of transmen who can or will breastfeed is very very small but it only takes one militant language policer within a group to spoil it for everyone if they aren't robustly challenged.

My group has a rule that nothing political is allowed to be discussed ever and all posts have to be approved before being published. As a result there are hardly any off topic discussions or arguments. Doesnt sound like the admin in your group is much use though so maybe time to look for a new one.

God, I used to hate the blokes who felt they were entitled to attend breastfeeding groups.

We had one who trained as a community.educator, which might have been ok if he'd been educating men about the realities of b/feeding and the support they could give their partners, but he thought he could do community education of women and girls. He wanted to train as an LC. Talk about red flags.

Sorry, OP. Your group is going to ignore the needs of many women in the group, because some men want in. That's how it goes, unless you're very lucky in your group leaders.

Do you have local groups, with breastfeeding counsellors? Maybe you can obtain one on one support that way? Sorry, not in the UK, so not sure what the ABA or LLL equivalent is.

Just to clarify, the question regarding men joining us about those who identify as male/ female.
I know this because it was mentioned in the original question.
Also that several admin had to step down as they disagree with the concept.
I haven't jumped the gun. This isn't about partners or dads joining, it is about people who identify as male/ female. Transfemales/ transmales

@TriflePudding

Keep reiterating that you aren’t comfortable in a mixed sex support group, (and refer back to your photo etc). Try to keep the focus on the need for female only support.

Its so fucking frustrating that we are currently being dragged back to before we could have women only groups/spaces etc!

I really want to comment but I've had two deleted. I can't say that I'm not comfortable. Other comments stating this were deleted. One remains, people are calling them transphobic etc.

I thought 'chestfeeding' referred to transmen who find the correct description of what they are doing (feeding a child from their lactating breasts!) too 'triggering'? How does a transwomen 'chestfeed' - provides comfort for the child (who is going to wondering where the fuck the milk is?) or the adult?

I'm totally confused and I am pretty au fait with trans issues!

Trans men are biologically female so them joining is fine (with all the usual caveats about why if they are so uncomfortable with their female bodies do they want to breastfeed but whatever! They’re still bio women)

Men who identify as women - nope!

Then the answer is to set up a new mixed sex group alongside the single sex group. Add. Many female members will happily belong to both, and there's no risk of a feeding person or a male partner of a breastfeeding mother going unsupported, nor the risk of breastfeeding woman being excluded and no longer having access to support by changing the existing successful group.

It was probably a deliberate attempt to out some “terfs”, add their names to terfblocker lists etc. Which was clearly successful. Be aware you may find yourself getting some unpleasant PMs OP.

So basically OP they didn’t want ppls thoughts or opinions unless they were ones that agreed with what they wanted to do

God I hate that! Don’t ask ppl if actually their opinion makes no difference

I would politely ask the admins to clarify if they mean:
(a) a female who is a breastfeeding transman joining the group for the usual support, or
(b) males who identify as transwomen joining the group for some other reason.

I would say of course you support (a) or that so long as the person is breastfeeding it doesn't matter one jot what they identify as.

You're a woman and a man wants something you have. Move over.

@Duckwit

I thought 'chestfeeding' referred to transmen who find the correct description of what they are doing (feeding a child from their lactating breasts!) too 'triggering'? How does a transwomen 'chestfeed' - provides comfort for the child (who is going to wondering where the fuck the milk is?) or the adult?

I'm totally confused and I am pretty au fait with trans issues!

Not according to the comments on this group.

"A biologically born female who now identifies as male can breastfeed with milk because they have milk ducts.

A biologically born male who now identifies as female can chest feed as they can induce lactation in males. They can also latch baby and use a sns system."

Sorry, massive cross post with your explanation OP. The idea of a TW "chestfeeding" is vile and I wouldn't be part of a group that thought that was OK. It wouldn't offer comfort to a baby, it'd be horribly confusing for them and they would cry and wonder why they couldn't get milk out. That's if they even latched at all onto a male nipple. The whole concept makes me feel sick tbh. I'd be done with the group that's for sure.

Well at this point it's down to asking what was the point of inquiring if members were comfortable/agreeable to the group becoming mixed sex, if the answer 'no' is just going to be deleted and anyone saying no scolded and potentially removed from the group?

Honestly if this is the case then a) why bother asking what members feel? and b) you badly need to find a different group

@MichelleofzeResistance

Then the answer is to set up a new mixed sex group alongside the single sex group. Add. Many female members will happily belong to both, and there's no risk of a feeding person or a male partner of a breastfeeding mother going unsupported, nor the risk of breastfeeding woman being excluded and no longer having access to support by changing the existing successful group.

They said they tried this but it didn't work out so they now want to make this group open.

Sadly the majority has voted "allow males"

So now lots of us no longer have a safe space AGAIN

Are they suggesting allowing female people who identify as male but are breastfeeding?

Honestly, this I would welcome as long as language did not erase women or require women to use words they would not choose for themselves.

I read an article about a trans man who had two children and his wish is that people asked which pronouns to use and followed his lead when choosing what words to use. The rest of the people in the group deserve the same respect.

For example, chestfeeding is not inclusive as it excludes those people that identify with having breasts. The risk is that the group falls over itself changing language that is required by a very small number of people and as a result imposes language on the rest of the group that they do not identify with and yes.... this worries me.

If, its allowing male partners into the group, there are support groups that admit men to allow them to understand and share in the process and emotions etc. However, this sex segregated space should remain sex segregated as long as that is what the majority of the members want.

Yup. Leave the group, delete your posts. I’m sorry you have been made to feel uncomfortable in what should have been a safe, supportive group.

@user643899

Just to clarify, the question regarding men joining us about those who identify as male/ female. I know this because it was mentioned in the original question. Also that several admin had to step down as they disagree with the concept. I haven't jumped the gun. This isn't about partners or dads joining, it is about people who identify as male/ female. Transfemales/ transmales

I'm none the wiser from this what the original question was; or indeed if you object to men joining , presumably to support partners ; or if it is you object to trans women joining or both.

Why are so many women so happy to move over for men?? Do they think men don’t have enough that they need our spaces too

Then the answer for them is that this will result in you losing the group and the support, and likely other women too who don't have your confidence to speak out.

If they're ok with removing support from some members to give it instead to potential new members then that's their decision really. It sucks, but it's a very fashionable point of view at the moment.

I'm none the wiser from this what the original question was; or indeed if you object to men joining , presumably to support partners ; or if it is you object to trans women joining or both.

It wasn't about dads. It was about transmales/ transfemales joining.
I object to this.

If there was a separate question regarding dads I would object too but this isn't what the question is about.

@PamDenick

Yup. Leave the group, delete your posts. I’m sorry you have been made to feel uncomfortable in what should have been a safe, supportive group.

Think that's what I'm going to have to do once they clarify they'll be going ahead.