Kier shows his colours

[averylongtimeago]

From Facebook, I guess he has picked a side.
51% of the population just don't count.

Do you read both sides though? For example, articles written by trans people, or from their viewpoint?

Thoroughly. For years. When I first started to think wtaf I read every damn thing I could find trying to work out what was going on. The articles around the cotton ceiling were highly illuminating. Terfisaslur.com did a very great deal, and led to me reading a lot of Twitter posters with my eyebrows disappearing into my hair. Many youtubers and podcasts and articles from well known people such as Rose of Dawn, Riley Dennis, Miranda Yardley. It was not MN that led to my creating my evidenced views, although talking with TW, NB, TM and many, many TRAs on MN certainly shaped and continues to shape them. As do the discussions on many articles, legal initiatives sought by the political lobby, newspaper articles biased either way, radio and television interviews and many other first hand evidence.

You'll find very few women here lazy enough to outsource their thinking. Or to blindly go along with the party line.

@Quaagars

I read simialr, and speak to trans freinds and acquantances. Yes, as I say here many times, I do know some trans and non binary people. Have done for over 30 yea

*Sorry just seen you answered that
Although not sure what the fact you have some trans friends has to do with anything.

OK! So the opinions of trans people I know doesn't count but articles written by othes do?

Mmmmm!

We have all read articles from the viewpoint of trans people @Quaagars. Do you seriously not realise how widely read and informed we all are?

Did you read my post? Do you frequent Twitter and read what is being said about GC women? Do you read pink news? Read Graham Lineham’s blogs? Etc.

And yes, I do read such articles. By many transwomen in many countries. Radio and television programmes too!

I am not so insular or lazy as to ignore the many and varied voices across the internet!

Oh and of course vast amounts from Stonewall, since as a lesbian I was a supporter and fundraiser for them for years. It took a long time to accept that an organisation I had been so proud of no longer believed in or accepted homosexuality, particularly for women, and had so emphatically turned against both groups. Very sad indeed.

We know that most children will desist if left alone and not pushed to declare their trans identity and have it affirmed by trusted adults who should know better!!

Yes I do hope the lawyers are lined up poised for attack on this widespread child abuse scandal.

OK! So the opinions of trans people I know doesn't count but articles written by othes do?

No, it just comes across as "I have trans friends" in exactly the same was as "I have black friends" argument does.

@Whatwouldscullydo

If the word woman becomes something based on feelings and self determination, then how will anyone know who they are talking about when discussing sex based crimes/violence/ discrimination.

Don't you think its worrying that the gender pay gap can be completely hidden by males in the work place self identifying then being recorded under female for data gathering purposes ?

I do not believe significant numbers of people will arbitrarily change sex to the point of causing this kind of problem.

If I’m wrong then we’ll find a way to cope as a society and a human race, it will not be the end of women.

I don’t disagree with a lot of the concepts people hold here, but the conclusions being reached are absurd.

They said birth control would destroy society. It certainly changed it, in some ways for the better, in same ways perhaps for the worse. We’re all still here. Build up some resilience to a changing world, it will change whether you like it or not.

Do you realise jts happened?

Google selina soule..

Where her and her fellow athletes are competing for third place and multiple records have been broken by 2 male born athletes. Records that no female will be able to break.

What about the wonen who lost out of her rightful 3rd place on the podium when laurel Hubbard won gold in weight lifting.

Do you plan on telling all female athletes who have lost their records scholarships and opportunity to compete in state championships that they just have to " learn to cope"

Build up some resilience to a changing world, it will change whether you like it or not

That's probably going to be twisted into a threat now

@Quaagars

OK! So the opinions of trans people I know doesn't count but articles written by othes do?

No, it just comes across as "I have trans friends" in exactly the same was as "I have black friends" argument does.

Yes, it does doesn't it!

And saying that is a lazy way to dismiss someone with wide ranging views and information sources too!

@turnitonagain

I don’t disagree with a lot of the concepts people hold here, but the conclusions being reached are absurd.

They said birth control would destroy society. It certainly changed it, in some ways for the better, in same ways perhaps for the worse. We’re all still here. Build up some resilience to a changing world, it will change whether you like it or not.

At least engage with what has been posted....

Build up some resilience to a changing world, it will change whether you like it or not.

Or to quote Shon Faye: 'enjoy ur erasure'? Or assimilation like the Borg?

No, changes that harm and remove rights from others are not good changes and should not be just endured by those they harm. There is just not enough glue to understand people who think like this.

Incidentally, perhaps other groups could build up some resilience to the concept of women having rights and being a discreet group, and biology existing? Wouldn't you agree?

LOL Quagars saw it coming.

Yes, probably better not to make threatening sounding statements if not helpful to your position.

Yes, it does doesn't it!
And saying that is a lazy way to dismiss someone

You're right, it does come across that way - seeing as you're agreeing with me, not sure how you think I'm trying to dismiss you.
It is how it comes across.

I do not believe significant numbers of people will arbitrarily change sex to the point of causing this kind of problem.

What sort of numbers do you view as 'significant'?

The GRA was intended to be used for around 5000 people who suffered from gender dysphoria, and most were expected to have had GRS. We are now told by the trans lobby that the GRA isn't fit for purpose since only about 5000 people have one, and the medical requirements are too onerous.

The new figure for the number of transgender people is between 0.3 and 1%, so between about 200,000 and 600,000 people, many of whom have no significant medical interventions. If all of these people decide to get a GRC through self-ID, do you think this number of people is significant and big enough to cause a problem? Or do you think most still wouldn't bother, despite the fuss they've been making about the consultation and Liz Truss's statement?

If all of the trans identifying sex offenders who are currently in men's prisons (the number is estimated to be between 46 and 78) were put instead into women's prisons (which would be their right under self-ID), do you think this is a big enough number to cause a problem? Since such men have the most to gain from self-ID, it's likely that the uptake would be particularly high amongst sex offenders in prison.

Is your 'belief' based on any concrete evidence, or just a feeling you have?

OK! I can see that the tautology remains strong!

I have engaged. My point is clear, many here refuse to accept it. That doesn’t mean I’m not expressing myself.

I won’t debate on specific cases any more than I did with the guy in my politics class at uni who argued black men are more prone to crime therefore police profiling policies is right. He had lots of evidence too. We have a word for people like that and it’s not “race critical.”

You can insist this is the greatest risk to women in the history of humankind. I DISAGREE. As do many others which is why these things are happening.

Do you plan on telling all female athletes who have lost their records scholarships and opportunity to compete in state championships that they just have to " learn to cope"

Ah yes, the old 'learn to cope'. I believe one TRA used that very phrase when talking about how lesbians could 'learn to cope' with being in a sexual relationship with someone with a dick.

As long as men get to do what they want, women can just Build up some resilience to a changing world and suck it up biatches!!!!

By the way, the sports thing, the crimes being recorded as female when they were perpetrated by a male thing? Its already happening.

Why should men just be able to declare themselves as legally women? Why is that some kind of fundamental human right, to be seen in law as something that you are objectively NOT?

Then can you at least give us a ballpark figure as to how many sports achievements lost, males in womens prisons, opportunities lost etc that would constitute a problem?

@turnitonagain

I have engaged. My point is clear, many here refuse to accept it. That doesn’t mean I’m not expressing myself.

I won’t debate on specific cases any more than I did with the guy in my politics class at uni who argued black men are more prone to crime therefore police profiling policies is right. He had lots of evidence too. We have a word for people like that and it’s not “race critical.”

You can insist this is the greatest risk to women in the history of humankind. I DISAGREE. As do many others which is why these things are happening.

Then don't discuss individuals.

What about sport? All sports... all competitions... sports regulating bodies...

“Welcome to your erasure”

La la la la 🙈🙉🙊

@OldCrone ok so let’s say male sex offenders identify as female and go into female prisons in large numbers. What happens then? They rape all the female inmates with no punishment? There’s no public or media outcry? There’s no inquest or investigation? Which would lead to a change in policy?

You act like you’re living in a rape-based dictatorship.