Why GC feminists shouldn’t trust US conservatives

[turnitonagain]

www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-calls-on-pennsylvanians-to-rise-up-and-chase-transgender-health-secretary-out-of-the-state/

The Pennsylvania health secretary who is trans has introduced a mask mandate. The response of this right wing news site is this.

“Chase that freak out of the state,” Wiles bellowed. “Chase it out of the state. Rise up in Pennsylvania, and chase that freak out of the state! You don’t have to tolerate this stuff.”

This “news organisation” has been invited to Trump’s White House multiple times.

raskin.house.gov/media/press-releases/24-representatives-demand-white-house-deny-trunews-press-credentials

Just a few weeks ago, Rick Wiles asked his guest whether the “transgender movement gets its origin in Zionism."

I know many GC MNers try to apply British views to America and say they’d back Republicans because of the trans issue. I think many are unaware or naive about how much more regressive the right wing is in general and how their anti trans positions often go hand in hand with racism, anti-Semitism, anti-science conspiracy theories, etc.

"VMI in Virginia is a case where women took over men's space and so now they have to be a military for both men and women. "

VMI did not want women there for lots of reasons like they have make changes and women will push them too hard to keep up with men and the risk of harassment and abuses (and it did happened at VMI) . Yet women won. This is something that US women fight for. Equal opportunity.

male person in a homeless shelter, >> shelters are usually a private organization and usually run by Christian charities, they don't support this type of sharing

* there are women who want to play men sport. VMI in Virginia is a case where women took over men's space and so now they have to be a military for both men and women.*

even find herself unable to claim sex discrimination when fired from her job for taking time off to breastfeed>> we do need to work on longer maternity leave but Democrats usually support this kind thing

Women's shelters in the USA do allow males to share facilities with female residents and Twitter is awash with photos of said males in these shelters.
Allowing females into a formerly all male military establishment is a redressing of a formerly discriminatory action against women because of their sex just as in the not too distant past allowing women into formerly male only medical schools redressed a similar injustice and is by no stretch of the imagination similar to denying women the right to athletic scholarships because it is physically impossible for any female athlete body to outrun, outjump, outpunch etc a male athlete body .
The lack of proper maternity leave in the USA is also nothing to do with losing a sex discrimination case for taking time off for breastfeeding; the case in point was lost because it wasn't sex discriminatory as " men" can lactate too.

What is a “men sport” that women want to play?

- are you “jj” ? (Never heard of her before)

That was a joke

People who have different opinions aren’t all out to get you

As my mum would say ‘its not what you’re saying, its the way that you’re saying it’

And you dont have a different opinion to 90% of the board

OP, you seem insistent on telling us off or warning us off things that most of us aren't even invested in, or don't believe in!! We're not tweens. We don't need educating on American Republicans. They are splashed almost daily on our newspapers!! Our media can't get enough of it!!

Men sport =

Ferrets down the trousers maybe?

The answer is not label feminism as "GC."

Real feminism, the original kind, that centres females and fights for their liberation, is naturally critical of gender roles for all the obvious reasons, and therefore also critical of many of the things the us right conservatives want for women too. Eg no access to contraception or abortion.

We are allowing men to define us as "GC" and therefore also T++fs. And use us accordingly.

No not criticising women, criticising the very small number of people in the gender critical movement, not all of them women, who have collaborated with the conservative right.

A 'very small number of people' you say? I thought very small numbers of people were not a problem and could basically be ignored anyway because reasons? Maybe they're not even GC at all, just part-timers. That's how this works, right? I'm not as practiced as some.

Anyway...

I don't think stuff like this is unusual on the left these days where they seem to believe that there is a correct way of thinking and that everyone must agree on everything and any deviation means you're a hateful bigot (meaning you don't even need to consider their point of view any more ) who must be cancelled. See JKR, John Cleese etc.

I also believe that due to this, some people on the left see women saying "I don't feel I can vote Labour any more" and therefore assume that what they really mean is "I love being an evil Tory". And obviously it can't be their fault so it must just be that those women are right-wing bigots because that's the only option left. Because you either think correctly or you're guilty of wrong-think and must be educated.

And whilst we're on the topic, there's always the old "Do it to Julia".

Real feminism, the original kind, that centres females and fights for their liberation, is naturally critical of gender roles for all the obvious reasons, and therefore also critical of many of the things the us right conservatives want for women too. Eg no access to contraception or abortion.

Well this is the crux of it isn't it. Everything else is just misunderstanding and deliberate attempts to divert and divide.

Nobody trusts US conservatives except other US conservatives, surely? I don't see the point of someone even having started this thread. It suggests to me that someone has spent too long down conspiracy theory rabbit holes on their computer.

[quote turnitonagain]@NotBadConsidering

Again - the “batshit” groups I’m posting are welcomed and even endorsed the Republican Party. They’re not fringe weirdos as far as American politics goes.

They’re trying to use concerns about trans in sports etc to get politicians in who want to take away healthcare, family planning, and abortion rights.

UK GC feminists don’t have to worry about this. It’s a different battleground in America.[/quote]
I love the idea that an obvious TRA/ally would come on here and talk about “batshit” groups being welcomed and endorsed by the Republicans.

Have you really no idea how batshit the whole TRA argument is, and how it’s been espoused by alarming numbers of mainstream politicians of various parties here?

Take Labour MP Dawn Butler and her comment on GMB earlier this year:
A child is born without sex, a child is formed without sex in the beginning.

I mean, seriously!

And all the gubbins about clownfish and mushrooms and god knows what, which gets retweeted and regurgitated by an embarrassing number of people who really ought to know better.

The bedrock itself of your ideology, the idea that TWAW, repeated by British politicians too numerous too mention, is a completely illogical, untenable position. There is absolutely no coherent definition of “woman” according to which it actually has any truth or meaning. It is gibberish. Units of sound that can be uttered by anyone but convey nothing except the utterer’s slavish devotion to a quasi-religious ideology that is entirely faith based and has no basis in material reality.

And yet which has been aggressively promoted by trans lobby groups and adopted by captured individuals, institutions and organisations far and wide here in the UK as if it were actually a genuine fact.

And you have the front to come on here and make like you’re bringing us some illuminating truth about the “batshit”/anti-science agenda of the Christian Right in the USA, like we’re all foolish women in thrall to those mad, bad people and you’re the lone voice of reason, like we’re the ones who don’t know what’s going on or see where the danger lies!

Do me a favour.

And in answer to your question, OP:

Are trans rights issues not linked to feminism?

No. Not in any way, shape or form. Why on earth would they be?

The only trans people whose rights would be fought for under feminism are biologically female people who identify as trans/NB - but that’s because they’re female, not because they’re trans.

So no, “trans rights” in and of themselves are nothing to do with feminism at all. And indeed the demands of TRAs run exactly counter to the aims of feminism in very many ways, as you will well know.

I wouldn't say trust is there tbh. A (very) few opinions may align, but thats about it. I know some 'debates' or whatever have gone on with 'the american right' but the issue with whinging about that is..well 'the left' won't entertain a conversation (broadly, not each individual person, obviously), nor will they allow views that differ from their wont to be aired in any way. So it appears to sometimes be a choice, appear with people you vehemently disagree with, to talk about something, or just shut up and say nothing. Neither is too good an option, but of course, many activists reckon women should just swallow it, be quiet, and let everyone else have their way instead.

Anyone who wants equality for women, even if they are GC, should be deeply distrustful of the American right.

That though? 'The left' is currently no good for women either. So, rock meet hard place.

I have always been a lefty, though of course it meas quite a different thing in the UK..but I feel 100% abandned by the left, and actively silenced at times, like when Labour is doing witch hunts to remove people who believe in biology from their membership ranks..

I don’t really like the expression ‘white feminism’ and would prefer something like ‘middle-class feminism’ but this would be an example of it- expecting others to ignore a major issue that directly affects them.

That sounds extremely familiar..

I have always been a lefty, though of course it meas quite a different thing in the UK..but I feel 100% abandned by the left, and actively silenced at times, like when Labour is doing witch hunts to remove people who believe in biology from their membership ranks..

this is my dilemma too. When a well-known TRA Labour Party women's officer was 'rubbing their hands' online and bragging about having access to all this data on all these 'terfs' it put a chill down my spine and I left. Didn't feel the Labour Party was a safe place for me any more. This was on the back of other general slurs toward women from this officer on twitter, plus another woman's officer who invited fellow party members to 'suck my lady' on twitter. There was also the comments from Andy Burnham basically telling women to get out.
Like everyone else here though I've obviously no delusions about the conservative right in US.

So because one shares your public position on trans - and I can assure you their private position is much closer to what I posted in the OP based on my experience with American churches - doesn’t mean you should entertain it as a serious option for GC feminists.
A serious option for..what?

I am not understanding this thread in many places, and again I wish I had read it all before posting (always say that, and cannot get into the habit of RTFT)

I find it odd, that 2 posters, seemingly only one of them saying what you imply they said, can possibly be in any way 'representative' of the women here tbh. I find it odder that this was in September and its taken until now to make a thread on it!

The feminists = rightwing conservative fundamentalists (or supporters of anti abortion stuff, because on one topic the views sort of align but for different reasons) stuff is both amusing and depressing to me. From who I have spoken to, the vast majority of feminists have mostly left wing views, but feel abandoned by the left, as 'the left' wants to give away womens rights also, just in a 'more progressive, nicer way' But also, of course right wing people can be feminists too.

At our last UK election, it kind of felt like voting if I would prefer herpes or syphillis to be quite honest. I have been politically homeless for a while now.

I'm not going to read seven pages of this - I'm just going by the tread title which is TRANSLATION "your lady brains are too small to understand anything about US right wing conservatives"

And please imagine me putting the finger up to the orginal poster. YOU PATRONISING FUCKER.

I think this is probably relevant to this thread. Harry Miller is appearing at an alt-right conference this weekend alongside Anne_Marie Evans and Carl Benjamin organised by a group which includes Tommy Robinson and Men's Rights Activist Matt O'Connor. It seems the links between the gender critical movement and the far right are growing ever closer.

I call this thread: how far can you stretch a straw man until it breaks

Thanks jj for something else to add to the 'batshit comments' collection!
😂😂😂

@NewlyGranny

Thanks jj for something else to add to the 'batshit comments' collection! 😂😂😂

You think it's batshit to criticise one of the best known figures in the gender critical movement for appearing at a conference organised by the far right?

Are you happy to see Harry platformed alongside anti-feminist activists like Carl Benjamin, who lest we forget, thinks it's funny to make jokes about raping political opponents? It seems the tolerance some have for working with the religious right in the US extends to working with the far right in the UK.

Yes its batshit.. because I have spent many weekends in close proximity to my sister in law and her parents who are tories... that does not make me a tory. I asked to watch Leni Reifenstal's Triumph of the Will when I was studying documentary at university - it did not make me a Nazi. You do not magically inbibe quallities from others by one's proximity. Harry's court case is of enormous significance for free speech in this country. PERIOD.