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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why GC feminists shouldn’t trust US conservatives

210 replies

turnitonagain · 20/11/2020 02:23

www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-calls-on-pennsylvanians-to-rise-up-and-chase-transgender-health-secretary-out-of-the-state/

The Pennsylvania health secretary who is trans has introduced a mask mandate. The response of this right wing news site is this.

“Chase that freak out of the state,” Wiles bellowed. “Chase it out of the state. Rise up in Pennsylvania, and chase that freak out of the state! You don’t have to tolerate this stuff.”

This “news organisation” has been invited to Trump’s White House multiple times.

raskin.house.gov/media/press-releases/24-representatives-demand-white-house-deny-trunews-press-credentials

Just a few weeks ago, Rick Wiles asked his guest whether the “transgender movement gets its origin in Zionism."

I know many GC MNers try to apply British views to America and say they’d back Republicans because of the trans issue. I think many are unaware or naive about how much more regressive the right wing is in general and how their anti trans positions often go hand in hand with racism, anti-Semitism, anti-science conspiracy theories, etc.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
5
SunsetBeetch · 20/11/2020 08:31

I think a lot of us DO recognise that American women are between a rock and a hard place. I doubt you'd find many, if any, gans of Trump on here.

The right being bad doesn't mean we can't also criticise the left.

SunsetBeetch · 20/11/2020 08:31

*fans

SunsetBeetch · 20/11/2020 08:32

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Gosh, Wrongthink Friday comes round earlier every year!
Grin
Hoppinggreen · 20/11/2020 08:36

Yes that’s right British GC Feminists are all secretly in the pay of the American Far Right - or any other shite people want to make up to discredit us

PaleBlueMoonlight · 20/11/2020 08:37

Abortion rights are largely now in the hands of the Supreme Court (and State legislatures). They are in [more] danger even with a Biden presidency.

DeaconBoo · 20/11/2020 08:39

[quote turnitonagain]@DeaconBoo don’t take my lack of response personally as pretty much everyone is commenting at me and you’ll be surprised to learn MN is not the only thing on my to-do list today.

I’m glad you won’t vote Tory but the Tories are pretty much free love hippies compared to the Republicans.[/quote]
I'm not taking it personally and didn't indicate that I would. I was asking why you started a separate thread, specifically addressed to a wide range of posters, to respond to two posters on a different topic. Particularly if you're short of time, it seems an inefficient way to discuss the matter.

Any other views you think I, as a GC feminist, am leaving dangerously unchecked? Perhaps you are unsure on my views on speeding?

HecatesCats · 20/11/2020 08:40

It's like Groundhog Day. Two posts on Mumsnet does not make a movement right wing. As PP have pointed out feminism encompasses women with a variety of political views. There's a lot of effort going into bolstering an argument that GC feminism is aligned with the right, but outside of social media bubbles most people will see that for the nonsense it is.

HecatesCats · 20/11/2020 08:41

These two posters are doing a lot of heavy lifting for your assertions

Floisme · 20/11/2020 08:41

Don't worry op, I don't trust the right any more than I trust the left. I think we're on our own.

SophocIestheFox · 20/11/2020 08:43

If two GC feminists conceding that voting Trump might not be the worst thing in the world means the whole movement is in bed with the far right, then why don’t the three trans Trump voters/donors I identify above mean that the whole trans movement is in bed with the far right?

Why are these two things different?

Tanith · 20/11/2020 08:51

"MN users who are not American shouldn’t take their struggle for women’s rights in the UK or Europe, look across the pond, and then accuse liberals over there of being deluded into backing anti-women policies. Abortion and same sex marriage are not at risk in most of Britain. They are in America. Their struggle is not your struggle."

If anything, I think trans rights activists from the US have taken their fight to the UK and stirred up a hornets nest with their "No Debate" and aggressive tactics, while knowing nothing about trans history in the UK.

NotBadConsidering · 20/11/2020 09:07

It’s not even two posters. It’s one person saying they’d seriously consider voting for Trump and they wouldn’t be surprised if they won, and one person saying they agree, which I read as they agree he might win.

And the OP sat on that for two months, mulled it over, started a thread with a tenuous link between those posts and some crackpot transphobe, and doesn’t have time to address questions raised on the thread they started.

Awesome.

PurpleHoodie · 20/11/2020 09:09

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt OP and not assume that you are trying to imply that a desire to uphold women's rights under the Equality Act (UK) 2010 means that you are a raving right wing lunatic or a naive innocent lured into supporting right wing lunatics because they also know that human beings aren't clownfish and therefore cannot change sex.

This.

PurpleHoodie · 20/11/2020 09:10

And this.

persistentwoman

Not this again. It's just a cue for the "house" misogynist to pile on Transgender Trend & other women's groups and to perpetuate the myth that feminists are in bed with the American right.
It's a lie.

EarthSight · 20/11/2020 09:12

I know many GC MNers try to apply British views to America and say they’d back Republicans because of the trans issue. I think many are unaware or naive about how much more regressive the right wing is in general and how their anti trans positions often go hand in hand with racism, anti-Semitism, anti-science conspiracy theories, etc

I don't know, do we?? Many of us are under no illusion that Republicans or the Right are our friends - they too trample over women when it suits them, just like the Left has been doing recently. There's a reason why you hear so many GC people saying they're politically homeless.

I think far more try to bring American style politics and views into the U.K than the other way around. What you said sounds something like a trans activist would say.

racism, anti-Semitism, anti-science conspiracy theories, etc

NOOOOOOO!!! ^REALLY* ???? You don't say!!! Thank you so much for telling us this about the Right! We would never have known that if you hadn't enlightened all us dumbos. Honestly!!

You'll find that Anti-Trans views (as you call them) do not automatically go hand in hand with all the other things you mentioned. That is the nonsense that activists try to peddle in order to discredit GC views. Many of them rely on group-think to tell them what's right & wrong, what's acceptable & unacceptable too. Whilst there is wisdom in that, it's also dangerous too to outsource your ethical compass to the crowd.

At the moment, GC views happen to be shared by some people on the Right, but for entirely different reasons, and it's incredibly important to know what those differences are. The Right not only subscribes strongly to gendered behaviour, but they also feel uncomfortable when people step out of gender norms (normally because of religious reasons).

Feminists however, either don't believe gender behaviour exists (which is why so many of them are sceptical of the idea of trans), or they don't feel like it's a big deal when people don't exhibit gendered behaviour that would stereotypically belong to their sex.....however......they do believe in biological reality and that reality makes women vulnerable in a way that men aren't. That reality massively influences our lives. We are believe in the reality of prison statistics and what that tells us about the safeguarding of women.

This contrasts quite starkly to a certain type of individual on the Right who seems to just want men to be men, and women to stay in the kitchen (and out of public life as a consequence). There are some women on here who are Conservative, but I would say they're a minority. Most are anything but that. Most are Left leaning.

I find it odd and unnecessary that you even posted what you did OP.

PurpleHoodie · 20/11/2020 09:16

Gosh, Wrongthink Friday comes round earlier every year!

And....this Grin

terryleather · 20/11/2020 09:18

@SophocIestheFox

Also re: the problem of taking a UK view of American issues- totally agree. The issue as I see, however, is that it is the export of a very American version of social justice that has distorted the debate in the UK. Critical theory, as it relates to race and gender, is a product of the American colleges and it translates very, very badly into the UK. It is, in its own way, extremely and ironically colonial.
Sophocles nails it.

We're subject to what amounts to a US cultural hegemony but we've to shut up and not have an opinion about it Hmm

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 20/11/2020 09:20

@Wrongsideofhistorymyarse

Gosh, Wrongthink Friday comes round earlier every year!
Its pretty much weekly
Duckwit · 20/11/2020 09:23

I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt OP and not assume that you are trying to imply that a desire to uphold women's rights under the Equality Act (UK) 2010 means that you are a raving right wing lunatic or a naive innocent lured into supporting right wing lunatics because they also know that human beings aren't clownfish and therefore cannot change sex.

This.

I am not willing to allow women's rights to be taken away just so that I can look good to certain people on the 'good' side.

Having said that, for some reason I still voted for the fucking useless, misogynistic, anti-semitic Momentum Labour Party in 2019 because I couldn't bring myself to vote Tory (I knew Labour would never win in my constituency anyway so that definitely helped my decision!)

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 20/11/2020 09:26

I think its the way these threads are done thats so fucking irritating

There is a difference between

Gc feminists are stupid and right wing and im gonna tell them off

And

Look at what ive seen from right wing groups in the usa, is anyone else aware of these things

Its always the first one

SophocIestheFox · 20/11/2020 09:28

The article in the OP is useful to the extent that it is an illustration of what actual transphobia looks like.

Views like that would, rightly, be deleted on here.

BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero · 20/11/2020 09:31

who have said they would have voted Trump if they were American

Well...

A) Non-American citizens can’t vote in American Elections
B) The election is over and Trump lost.

So not really worth getting your knickers in a twist over, OP.

Oh and C) Joe Rogan officially endorsed Bernie Sanders twice (although his first choice for 2020 would’ve been Tulsi Gabbard).

HTH

BettyDuKeiraBellisMyShero · 20/11/2020 09:38

Talking of the USA, look at this thread on the property board last night.

Click through the photo gallery, the first interior shot will almost definitely make you ‘piss your britches’ as my nan was wont to say.

ArabellaScott · 20/11/2020 09:39

Ladies of FWR, I do love how solid and unflappable and sensible and intelligent you all are. Friday wrongthink [hug] for you all, even though I believe that is contra Mumsnet protocol.

OP, If I ever find myself faced with the opportunity to vote for Trump I will bear your points in mind, ta.

HecatesCats · 20/11/2020 09:42

Betty, I need this link!