Why GC feminists shouldn’t trust US conservatives

[turnitonagain]

www.rightwingwatch.org/post/rick-wiles-calls-on-pennsylvanians-to-rise-up-and-chase-transgender-health-secretary-out-of-the-state/

The Pennsylvania health secretary who is trans has introduced a mask mandate. The response of this right wing news site is this.

“Chase that freak out of the state,” Wiles bellowed. “Chase it out of the state. Rise up in Pennsylvania, and chase that freak out of the state! You don’t have to tolerate this stuff.”

This “news organisation” has been invited to Trump’s White House multiple times.

raskin.house.gov/media/press-releases/24-representatives-demand-white-house-deny-trunews-press-credentials

Just a few weeks ago, Rick Wiles asked his guest whether the “transgender movement gets its origin in Zionism."

I know many GC MNers try to apply British views to America and say they’d back Republicans because of the trans issue. I think many are unaware or naive about how much more regressive the right wing is in general and how their anti trans positions often go hand in hand with racism, anti-Semitism, anti-science conspiracy theories, etc.

@PaleBlueMoonlight

turnitonagain I am not sure why you have posted those screenshots? What point are you making?

I was asked for screenshots.

If people think Trump is worth supporting on the trans issue they should be aware of who he keeps company with on the subject.

@Clymene too lazy to screenshot but there’s a thread about Kelly Loeffler and it’s clear the poster supporting her knew nothing about her overall politics and corruption.

Maybe my previous post was too long, so I’ll cut to the chase: what on earth do this man’s repellant views have to do with feminism?

Not even two posters. One says they consider voting for Trump if they were in the US, the other points out that much of the violence is not coming from Trump supporters.

It must be so difficult for republicans who think that Democrat policies would be catastrophic and who can see the rising authoritarianism of the left, but who dislike Trump and the fact he is whipping up the far right.

Much like it was very difficult for labour supporters in this country who feel that conservative policies are catastrophic, but don’t feel they can vote labour because they are woman-erasing. Although the issues are less extreme here.

Everyone balances things differently.

@PaleBlueMoonlight

turnitonagain I am not sure why you have posted those screenshots? What point are you making?

Two posters. I don't think you can say that is 'many' by any stretch of the imagination.

Two posters not talking about trans issues either

@SophocIestheFox

Maybe my previous post was too long, so I’ll cut to the chase: what on earth do this man’s repellant views have to do with feminism?

Because in American politics unfortunately the anti-trans lobby is mixed in with the racist, Christian conservative, pro-life movement. And in many discussions on MN about trans issues, people seem utterly oblivious of that and try to argue that American GC feminists should back Republican bills or politicians.

MN can be read by anyone in any country and I think it’s dangerous to leave these views unchecked.

I also think people should admit where their knowledge is limited and frankly MN is shit on American politics in general.

I don't imagine anyone here supports this man's vile views. So what's your point? Women - badly let down by politicians on the Left - should be careful when supporting politicians on the Right? Thanks for that.

Agreeing with one thing someone says doesn't mean agreeing with everything. British women don't have a vote in the US. The election has already happened. Women's rights in America are at risk - how that manifests depends on which party is in charge. American women are perfectly able to weigh up their options and choose whichever they either agree with, or disagree with the least, and that's what millions of them did recently.

For those of us on the Left, the more pressing questions are how and why we're even in a position where voting for a Right wing/leaning party might seem like the lesser of two evils. That's not our doing, it's the Left parties who have left us behind.

Divisions give capital to the extremes on either side. The only voices in town at the moment are those of the hard left and the hard right. Don't lose sight of the fact that in democracies politics only works from the centre.

The Democrats (and me) are equally worried about their hard left.

I am UK, so I'm not informed enough but judging by some comments here, I might be a little more informed than I thought.

@Pahrump the Joe Rogan thread was about how he’s anti trans and being accused of being a Trump supporter as a result. Read through it.

Caitlin Jenner is a trump supporter, as are Blaire White and Jennifer Pritzker. Trump more than doubled his 2016 LGBT share of the vote in this past election.

How does that figure in this worldview of it being impossible to be a trans supporting republican?

I have a relatively limited understanding of American politics, but what I do completely understand is all the various ways that wedges are driven into feminism.

Also, you didn’t answer my question: what has this to do with feminism? Your analysis only stacks up if you believe the views here are being driven by being anti trans. They are not. They are driven by being pro women. You can argue that they’re not until you’re blue in the face, but that won’t make it so.

[quote turnitonagain]@Pahrump the Joe Rogan thread was about how he’s anti trans and being accused of being a Trump supporter as a result. Read through it.[/quote]
He's not "anti trans" though...

@SophocIestheFox

Also, you didn’t answer my question: what has this to do with feminism? Your analysis only stacks up if you believe the views here are being driven by being anti trans. They are not. They are driven by being pro women. You can argue that they’re not until you’re blue in the face, but that won’t make it so.

Are trans rights issues not linked to feminism?

I agree OP. I think that for married heterosexual women in particular, they often feel that others should just overlook the apparently unimportant differences between GC feminism and the right. I have seen numerous videos and articles shared on here from fundamentalist groups who speak up about anti-trans but are also against homosexuality and abortion. If you say anything about it, you’re accused of derailing the argument and that you should overlook your issues in favour of the wider cause. Obviously people can think what they want but but Trump would have made things much much worse for women than a pro-trans democratic government would (and which we now have). He actively sought to repeal abortion laws which would have hit especially hard for poorer women without access to contraception and who would have to resort to dangerous backstreet abortions if it were outlawed. I don’t really like the expression ‘white feminism’ and would prefer something like ‘middle-class feminism’ but this would be an example of it- expecting others to ignore a major issue that directly affects them. Same in the UK where people were voting tories due to this issue when a) tories were the ones who introduced idea of self-ID and b) their austerity policies have absolutely devastated poor people, especially women.

At the same time, I recognise that people will always vote for what directly benefits them and their immediate family the most and that the expectations of self-sacrifice that come from the left-wing are somewhat unrealistic.

Firstly, unlike the people mentioned by the OP, nobody on this board is anti trans. This is a feminist rights board, fighting to ensure that female rights are not eroded and nothing more. Most of us are not based in the USA so it is unsurprising that we are not familiar with the complexities of politics there and I am sure most of us would admit this lack of knowledge.

@SophocIestheFox I know a Muslim who voted for Trump too. What’s your point?

What a weird thread. Op seems to be responding to a couple of posts about Trump but instead of just doing that, is deciding that all GC feminists need reminding again how vile American men can be?

Are you going to respond to my posts where I've said I'll never vote Tory and and Trump is abhorrent?

I leave loads of views "unchecked", sorry if that's "dangerous" but if i went around starting a thread on every racist, homophobic, misogynist or transphobic utterance anyone's ever made - or even those from the last 24 hours - I'd be insane.

@334bu

Firstly, unlike the people mentioned by the OP, nobody on this board is anti trans. This is a feminist rights board, fighting to ensure that female rights are not eroded and nothing more. Most of us are not based in the USA so it is unsurprising that we are not familiar with the complexities of politics there and I am sure most of us would admit this lack of knowledge.

This is literally the point of my post.

MN users who are not American shouldn’t take their struggle for women’s rights in the UK or Europe, look across the pond, and then accuse liberals over there of being deluded into backing anti-women policies. Abortion and same sex marriage are not at risk in most of Britain. They are in America. Their struggle is not your struggle.

You cannot expect an immigrant woman who can’t get an abortion within 100 miles of her home to be het up about Kamala Harris’s Twitter bio saying “she/hers” which I saw discussed here.

People who are not American may live in America - I think it's perfectly fair for them to have views on the politics of the country they live in.

@DeaconBoo don’t take my lack of response personally as pretty much everyone is commenting at me and you’ll be surprised to learn MN is not the only thing on my to-do list today.

I’m glad you won’t vote Tory but the Tories are pretty much free love hippies compared to the Republicans.

[quote turnitonagain]@SophocIestheFox I know a Muslim who voted for Trump too. What’s your point?[/quote]
The point is that you’re over simplifying and taking one dimension (left/right) of a multi dimensional issue.

The point is, that it is possible to be right wing and for that not to automatically mean anti trans.

Did you want people to condemn Wiles’ views? I absolutely do. It’s got nothing to do with my feminist objections to the erosion of women’s rights.

"You cannot expect an immigrant woman who can’t get an abortion within 100 miles of her home to be het up about Kamala Harris’s Twitter bio saying “she/hers” which I saw discussed here.

Of course not, however, that same immigrant woman might find herself sharing a room with a male person in a homeless shelter, might find her daughter deprived of her only chance of further education when a male athlete gets her scholarship or even find herself unable to claim sex discrimination when fired from her job for taking time off to breastfeed. All of this could happen if Vice President- elect Harris is not just paying lip service ( as we fervently hope) to the loony left wing of her party.

Also re: the problem of taking a UK view of American issues- totally agree. The issue as I see, however, is that it is the export of a very American version of social justice that has distorted the debate in the UK. Critical theory, as it relates to race and gender, is a product of the American colleges and it translates very, very badly into the UK. It is, in its own way, extremely and ironically colonial.

Gosh, Wrongthink Friday comes round earlier every year!