Transinclusive feminists, please help me understand.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

Genuine question. I recognise that some men suffer from gender dysphoria or truly believe they were meant to be women, and some want to live out their fantasies. So I understand why they want access to women’s single-sex spaces and facilities, to validate themselves.

I understand why they want language and culture changed to include them in the category of women.

Some men will take advantage for personal gain (eg taking ‘women’s officer’ roles or sports prizes), or to harass women and girls in intimate spaces eg toilets, or to be transferred from a male to a female prison. Women and girls lose out, obviously, with no corresponding gains to compensate.

I can understand that women who aren’t feminists may not be concerned about the effects on women and girls.

But how does a feminist reconcile her feminism — centring women’s rights and needs, including the right to privacy and safety —with supporting transwomen’s actions that necessarily impinge on these?

This is a genuine question, as I wonder if I’m missing or misunderstanding something.

@NiceGerbil

In the USA I assume?

What's the problem with having given birth to male children?

A massive proportion of the population have mental health conditions. The vast majority of the time you would have no idea. So what's the problem with people with mental health conditions full stop?

Etc etc

No in the UK.

I support provision being funded so that male trans people are provided for outside women's accommodation.

If it's such a tiny number of males who need to use women's crisis services, they can surely be provided for in a different way that doesn't compromise the therapeutic recovery, privacy, dignity and boundaries of abused women.

Butterer in the unfortunate event of me getting sectioned again, I would take you as a fellow innate over a male of any temperament.

There may be times when I'd prefer the company of a quiet male to a female who's struggling to contain her distress (in the library, for example). But in the nuthouse? You never know what the person next to you might be capable of, and in that situation we're all far safer if the person next to us is female.

As for where we find the all-female community, oddly enough that was one of the places I did. But I suspect we mostly have to go out and create it ourselves.

Count me in.

I've got an idea. Transwomen could share facilities used by men.

I'm not a fan of labels and I see certain issues, like biological men competing in women's sports, as wrong and ridiculous. It's definitely a cause I (and I believe 99% of the population) can get behind.

But, the constant obsession with the super tiny population of trans people on this board gets tiresome. It has a militant feel to it.
I'd much rather get back to dissing patriarchy.

I'm impressed you can all deal with this nastiness

@Ereshkigalangcleg

If it's such a tiny number of males who need to use women's crisis services, they can surely be provided for in a different way that doesn't compromise the therapeutic recovery, privacy, dignity and boundaries of abused women.

Sure you could move them straight into social housing or self contained accommodation for example. But that would cause a huge amount of resentment because the entire system runs on scarcity which is something else workers have to try and manage. A lot of women in refuges and hostels are ready to move on and want to but there is nowhere to go, so giving priority to one group, or anything that was deemed special treatment, would cause just as many problems as including them within the mainstream.

I guess the obsession is related to thesize of the threat

If women no longer exists, women's rights no longer exist

Maybe it's because I know men will punch me if I don't shut Up and sit down.

But, the constant obsession with the super tiny population of trans people on this board gets tiresome.

Women's rights are under threat. We are discussing this. Male people aren't female, as you acknowledge.

@midgebabe

I've got an idea. Transwomen could share facilities used by men.

Most of them won't accept trans women due to the levels of risk involved.

Er....er.....someisks to transwomen are important but risks to women are not?
Yeah, thanks love,

Referring back to Karen white

@midgebabe

Er....er.....someisks to transwomen are important but risks to women are not? Yeah, thanks love,

Referring back to Karen white

Those working in the sector have repeatedly said trans inclusion is not a risk including the hundreds of VAWG projects and umbrella bodies who signed the statement saying exactly that that I posted earlier.

Sure you could move them straight into social housing or self contained accommodation for example. But that would cause a huge amount of resentment because the entire system runs on scarcity which is something else workers have to try and manage.

But it wouldn't be funded on scarcity if the hugely rich LGBT charities and advocacy groups contributed some funding to the cause of the small number of trans people's needs in this respect. It doesn't have anything to do with women.

Just move them in with the other males. Presumably there are male shelters.

Those working in the sector have repeatedly said trans inclusion is not a risk including the hundreds of VAWG projects and umbrella bodies who signed the statement saying exactly that that I posted earlier.

And other people say different. The entire third sector is subject to the capricious nature of funding and coercive pressure to be "inclusive", as well as being ideologically captured.

So people are turning a blind eye to the risks?! Unbelievable.

Because let's face it , all the data shows transwomen have male offending rates

Oops shush

Most of them won't accept trans women due to the levels of risk involved.

Can you explain what you mean by 'levels of risk'?

I have been trying to identify why so many of the posts on one side of this argument are such a wind up to read.

They activly dodge logic, I think that's it.

Most of them won't accept trans women due to the levels of risk involved.

But women are expected by you and many to share with other males.

You keep saying there is no risk from this group of males but you have still provided no evidence to show that they don't share the same patterns if violence against women that other males have.

Most of them won't accept transwomen due to the levels of risk involved.

They need to improve on managing that risk, rather than transferring it to the women’s sector.

Just as prisons are having to do, now that the anticipated problems with transwomen in the female estate are coming to fruition.