What do men think of mixed-sex toilets?

[NatalDrag]

The mixed-sexed toilet debate is usually centred around the fact that women don't want to share safe spaces with men. However, I wonder why the opinions of men aren't include more in the debate?

I was talking to my partner about this issue last night. He works in a university, and in his department's building, most toilets are now mixed-sex (self contained toilets, similar to disabled toilets, not cubicles). Despite offering lots of privacy, he doesn't like these toilets as he says it's awkward standing in line for the toilet alongside young women. He feels like he's doing something wrong. He then added that if it was an open-plan toilet with cubicles, he doesn't think he could even go in without feeling awkward.

Thinking about it, most men I know would probably feel the same way. I was wondering if anyone here had any thoughts on this point?

Nightclubs, music festivals, gigs etc

Where people are getting pissed then. And a minority of pissed people, because it certainly isn't the majority, go and look at willies. Yeah that's crap. Those venues should crack down on people going into the opposite sex toilets and stop this abusive behaviour. Meanwhile, back in the real world, I still don't want to share toilets with men, not does my teenage daughter. Also, in the real world, my dp does not want to share these spaces with women either. Just because a minority of people take advantage doesn't mean the rules should be changed for everyone else, based on rubbish behaviour by a few.

Nightclubs, music festivals, gigs etc

Any man who has never seen it happen either lives in a very different world to me or doesn’t go out much

My son is 30 and plays in a band and used to go to festivals. He thinks it was an odd question to put to him and , no it is not a thing- beyond girls and women fed up of queues for the ladies might use the gents.

However if it happens it's still an argument for single sex toilets.

My brother and brother in law were in (different) bands too. Other brother in law was a right night animal (pre kids). They haven’t come across this phenomenon either.

Must have been playing in the wrong venues. Or has the wrong groupies.

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

Which women go ‘regularly’ into which men’s loos to peer at willies? I’ve never heard of this.

FFS it was just the once and we were very very drunk.

My husband doesn't mind the kind that are essentially single toilets used by anyone, individually. Here those almost always are found in places with fairly low demand.

He does not want to share a toilet with cubicles and shared sinks, even fully enclosed cubicles.

I asked him about a sort of private hall area with small cubicles with individual sinks, which he hasn't encountered. He said he felt it would depend on the setting - he probably wouldn't mind in a place like an office where he worked regularly with the same group of people, but he would not like it where there were a lot of strange people going in or out. Particularly if he was likely to meet young women/teenagers.

Particularly if he was likely to meet young women/teenagers

YY I think a lot of decent men with insight and empathy feel like this. Because they KNOW that their presence makes the Young women uncomfortable.

The men understand that the girls / young women can’t tell psychically that they are decent blokes and won’t harass them so that of course they will be wary and on edge. Most men therefore try to act in a non threatening way - wash their hand quickly, not make eye contact and get the hell out of these ASAP.

So everyone is on edge - the men and the women.

The only people who LIKE this set up are the perverts ( ooh great a change to perv on and harass women ) and people who get a sexual thrill or personal affirmation out of using the facilities of the opposite sex.

Or those who enjoy getting their own way and subverting social norms, who get a sense of power out of upsetting those who are more vulnerable.

I have never seen a convincing argument that mixed sex toilets are in anyway GOOD for women and girls (although some have tried unconvincingly on other threads). Given they make up half the population, one ask to ask why hard fought for provision is being eroded? This is happening even in big corporations with money to spend on additional mixed sex facilities as opposed to doing away with the women’s altogether (bbc, civil service) etc Why has a lobby representing a tiny minority of people been able to ensure that many organisations are now creating mixed sex facilities - including many schools - to the detriment of women and girls?

‘Pupils are missing school because they don't like mixed sex toilets and 'period shaming' is one of the main issues‘

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/education/pupils-missing-school-because-dont-15839558

‘New Welsh schools will have mixed toilets to minimise bullying‘ wtf?

edexec.co.uk/new-welsh-school-will-have-mixed-toilets-to-minimise-bullying/

(When I was at school the boys used to wait in the doorways to grab passing girls so they could pin them down on the table and grope them)

‘Parents of pupils at Deanesfield Primary School in South Ruislip, West London launched a petition last month against the introduction of unisex toilets.‘

www.thesun.co.uk/news/10077577/gender-neutral-toilets-school-girls-feel-unsafe/

Who benefits and who loses?

I've never seen mixed sex toilets where one has to pass through the urinal section to get to the cubicles. That's grim.

I see it often in France.

The decent men understand why women are nervous using mixed sex facilities. They want to have a sign that says “ don’t be worried Ladies I’m a decent bloke, I’ll be in and out in two seconds, sorry about the intrusion".

I brought this up with a local LibDem canvasser and he fully agreed that men in the ladies' loos made the women uncomfortable and that in turn made him uncomfortable if he ever had to share a facility. He didn't realise that his own 'team' were campaigning for anything-goes loos.

In the case of transwomen-males rather than men-males, though, he still seemed to think it was all very complicated and on balance we should suck it up. Hard to know in more detail as he started basically running away at that point.

@DodoPatrol

The decent men understand why women are nervous using mixed sex facilities. They want to have a sign that says “ don’t be worried Ladies I’m a decent bloke, I’ll be in and out in two seconds, sorry about the intrusion".

I brought this up with a local LibDem canvasser and he fully agreed that men in the ladies' loos made the women uncomfortable and that in turn made him uncomfortable if he ever had to share a facility. He didn't realise that his own 'team' were campaigning for anything-goes loos.

In the case of transwomen-males rather than men-males, though, he still seemed to think it was all very complicated and on balance we should suck it up. Hard to know in more detail as he started basically running away at that point.

I think this is because for many, their underlying assumption is that transwomen are sort of like intersex people, who they imagine somehow have a foot in both camps.

For those types, questions about facilities are secondary in a sense, the primary issue is that they see the categories differently. From that perspective their equivocation is logical.

I doubt the sign on the door is going to make the sort of animal that rapes someone change their mind or rethink their thought process.

Wow.

Of course it makes a difference. A huge one.

If (as a man) you’re accused of attacking a woman, you have plausible deniability if you’re in the “right” toilet.

Otherwise, the Jury will think “Well what was he doing in the Women’s loos in the first place?”

It’s about being credible if accused.

If a man walks into a woman’s loos then a woman can use her judgement whether to walk out or not. Nowadays she can’t even say ‘this is the ladies’ for fear of being attacked as a ‘phobe and being reborn our herself.

We need to get a handle on this - loos by sex. Women’s rights and safety prioritiesed.

@WootMoggie

I doubt the sign on the door is going to make the sort of animal that rapes someone change their mind or rethink their thought process.

Wow.

Of course it makes a difference. A huge one.

If (as a man) you’re accused of attacking a woman, you have plausible deniability if you’re in the “right” toilet.

Otherwise, the Jury will think “Well what was he doing in the Women’s loos in the first place?”

It’s about being credible if accused.

Ontop of this, a lot of attacks on women are opportunistic rather than 'planned'. More chances to do it, more likely it will happen. Depressing, but how it is.

I'm a man, I don't like them. I don't really want to hear women crimping off turds, there is much to be said for maintaining a certain element of mystery. I'd also rather not be dealing with a particularly challenging poo with a girl in the next cubicle.

I don't buy the safety argument though, anyone committing any criminal offence which carries years of prison time isn't going to pick a place which by it's very nature has witnesses constantly coming and going without warning. Ironically the place you will be safest from attack by a man is any place with lots of other men.

That's great that you don't buy the safety argument New. You know that not all assaults are planned, right? And not all loos are packed to the rafters with men, or indeed other people. But if someone happened to see an opportunistic man going into the ladies on quiet railway platform say they might have more reason to raise the alarm with station staff than they would if they saw a man walking into mixed toilets.

Having said that I'm grateful to you for wanting to spare us the sound of you curling one off.

Squeamish about lady poo? How... ‘quaint’

ThatIsNotMyUsername

Hang on...... Ladies poo!!!!!!

I don’t. I don’t sweat, sweat, fart or burp either...

I don’t. I don’t sweat, sweat, fart or burp either...

A proper lady!

A lay-dee in fact...

'I'm a laaaaydeeee'

@ThatIsNotMyUsername

And on the side of Paddington station. Right next to a large bin. In the summer the smell is dreadful.

No doubt these are free of charge, whereas it is still 20p (or more) per person to use the proper toilets, which hits women and especially those accompanied by children harder.

That’s what all the hotels and coffee shops nearby are for surely?