Men using Mumsnet for support

[LoeliaPonsonby]

Bear with me. This is not particularly coherent and I am not as eloquent as many of you on here.

But I am naffed off with the increasing number of men using Mumsnet for emotional support (Fully prepared to be told actually it’s always been this way and it’s all in my head). Why are they choosing Mumsnet for their emotional labours? What’s wrong with Pistonheads, or Digital Spy, or another interest based forum?

It just massively gets my back up. I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no. But when a man comes along and wants advice about the fact he’s not happy in his marriage, or that he’s realised he’s gay and has screwed over his wife and family (but let’s not talk about them), I just want to say, just fuuuuuck offfff. We are all busy picking up the pieces of the women who’ve been screwed over by your emotional cowardice, can’t you find some men to sort you out?

In real life, I don’t believe in tribalism, in only helping my own “kind”. But on MN it really pisses me off.

So I don’t know what I’m asking. Or why I’m posting this.

Single women with no children post here, or married women without children, who state they don't want children post here. Just ignore what you don't want to read. Some men are genuine. I do laugh as they seem particularly drawn to the 'sex' topic!

Don't you think it's important that men address their emotions and at least make some attempt to examine behaviours that may be stereotypical?

Oh Jesus I've just glanced at the sex topic for the first time in a long time. What a cringeworthy bunch of posters. Seriously, fucks sake. Some of them are actively revoltingt too. There's one thread where an OP describes a creepy lech who touched her up in her apartment, and a man actually asked why thats a problem, pretending that he can't understand consent and flirting in this day and age. Ugh. Wish I hadn't looked.

Ah, the anal sex board is still going strong, is it?

Mumsnet describes itself as by parents for parents.

There many female posters who are not parents, or, like me, whose children are well into adulthood. Do you want to stop them posting too? They are more in breach of the strapline demographic than a man who might be a parent.

There's nothing in MNHQ rules that says men can't post on here.

This.

If they didn’t want to welcome men they wouldn’t have a dadsnet section.

Also, considering the male suicide rate and how hard it is for men to ‘open up’, I’m just glad these men are trying. How will toxic masculinity/boys don’t cry’/‘man up’ ever be overcome if we chastise men for reaching out?

Nobody is obliged to reply when a man posts but IME the majority of women are fine with blokes.

I think a helpful concept here would be that of 'supererogation'. A supererogatory act is one which is morally good but beyond what is expected of you. You are praiseworthy if you do it but not blameworthy if you don't.

@Antibles

I think a helpful concept here would be that of 'supererogation'. A supererogatory act is one which is morally good but beyond what is expected of you. You are praiseworthy if you do it but not blameworthy if you don't.

Ooh that's a blast from the past. Second year moral philosophy course.

YADNBU. I question the motives too... especially after receiving private messages from men after posting on a sex-related thread on netmums a few years ago. I often wonder if they're looking for genuine advice or an ego boost.

Just catching up not read the whole thread.

Yes there is an increase in men posting and announcing they're men rather than just talking.

A definite increase in threads started by men talking about lazy or selfish women/ ones who stop them seeing their children.

Obviously anyone is free to post. (Why this fuck off and set up a different website/ you want then banned stuff? Bit strong! Can't we chat about this?).

My experience of men on MN is that there are regs who join in, in the spirit of the site. And you wouldn't know they were men but they do say when pertinent. They post respectfully.

Then there's the ones who always pop up on threads about porn/ prostition across the boards to say how it's all fab and no problems and anyone who disagrees is a prude etc. They are obvious. And really fucking annoying. You never see them on other threads.

Over the years we have had a bunch of men who like to argue with women on FWR. They are also a pita.

It's about this being a female dominated site and reading the room etc. I said once on a thread where a nice chat was happening and a chap came in and demanded attention and got all start when the women were... Erm.. eh? That it reminded me of when you're in the pub with a female friend or friends and random men just come and sit down and insist you talk to them.

So yes on the whole they piss me off. Although some are lovely obviously.

I mean the internet is male dominated. MN is a rare majority women place.

We've had DDOS attacks. Various organised trolling. A real life swat attack on a woman with kids in the house.

Other day there was that thing about tracking posts and posters via a fairly shit sounding bit of code.

Etc etc

Meanwhile the male dominated rest of the net has untold awfulness going on.

MN really pisses off a certain type of man.

How many women go into I dunno. FFJ groups or piston heads or whatever and behave like this? Thinking not so many.

From an fwr view major SM providers are deleting and banning women all over the place. While 'minor attracted' men chat freely...

We have one place. They are walking into a female place. Just read the room, basically.

LordLancington I don't understand your post.

The posts from men I've seen aren't asking for help. They're saying things like. All men watch porn so shut up. Prostitutes choose their job so it's all fine. Women have power over men because, (???), reasons...

Etc

Yes men mention male suicide rates but IME pretty much exclusively to tell women they've got it good and stop talking about things that affect women and go and look after men instead.

It's better if men look after men surely? Work on that I reckon rather than going on the net and telling women to stfu etc.

I don’t have an issue with men on mumsnet.
Much more interested in the discussion on helping men when asked! The poster did say exceptions - she knows some wonderful men and of course helps them. But I think it really is a public service to be able to say no to a man asking for help. It reminds them its a favour not an entitlement, and they either have to do something themselves or go to a little more effort to ask someone else to do it for them. Maybe they’d be more polite, maybe they’d be a little more grateful. And women are used to being the helper and less likely to ask for help- no issues at all with switching the support focus to women!!

Personally I love my husband very much but have employed this saying no with him for some requests for help because he is far more likely to ask for help with basic home life. Or was, he’s pretty much trained.
Time can you help wipe dc1s bottom?
No I can’t come right now, I’m doing x.
But dc1 needs his bottom wiped and I’m trying to get dc2 to bed??!!!
What do you think I do every night you aren’t here darling? Pretend you’re me.

NiceGerbil, I’ll try and address your points individually.

The posts from men I've seen aren't asking for help. They're saying things like. All men watch porn so shut up. Prostitutes choose their job so it's all fine. Women have power over men because, (???), reasons...

I can’t say I’ve seen many of these in my months of lurking, and I did read FWR threads from time to time, although admittedly I was mainly on AIBU as I like all the bonkers threads you don’t really get on any other website. I’ve seen more women who I presume are liberal feminists talking about choice prostitution etc and sexual empowerment/liberation etc. Also, women saying they watch porn (although most seem to dislike it). But if you have any specific examples you can link I’d be interested to read them as I do find the above topics quite interesting.

Yes men mention male suicide rates but IME pretty much exclusively to tell women they've got it good and stop talking about things that affect women and go and look after men instead.

I have to say I disagree with this. I normally see men (admittedly bitter sounding men) complaining about feminists spreading the myth that ‘men have it easy’ and saying that this actively makes it harder to address men’s issues. One of the common tropes mentioned is the whole ‘male tears’ thing, and I’ve also seen a fair few posters referring to ‘the poor menz’ on here. It seems to me that these men don’t so much want feminists to focus on men as they want them to focus more on women and stop what they argue is ‘misandrist’ (or is it ‘misandric’?) speech. FWIW, I think it’s hard to discuss feminism without mentioning men, but it works both ways which is why I argued that male stereotypes are relevant as a comparison to the Karen meme as they show that it’s not just women that suffer contempt.

It's better if men look after men surely? Work on that I reckon rather than going on the net and telling women to stfu etc.

This is a pretty multifaceted point IMO. One could reverse it and say why don’t feminists focus on women rather than knocking men? Of course, feminists would argue that the reason is because men are the root of many of women’s problems. But of course many people don’t really agree with feminist theory and think it’s pretty hateful, which is often purported to be the reason that 9/10 women ‘believe in equality’ but allegedly ‘don’t identify as a feminist’, if you believe that study.

My belief is that there is truth in both arguments, but that both sides also attract some bitter individuals who like an excuse to moan (a bit like how the whole covid situation has given many the excuse to police others’ behaviour and be extremely preachy). I mean, if a large number of men started to voice opinions that women ‘had it easy’ because many continue to work part time after the kids are grown, or because it’s much more common for women to not work at all but extremely rare for the opposite to be true....well, you can be bloody sure that plenty of women would have something to say about it!

People try and use the patriarchy as proof but I think many people just believe patriarchy is itself a result of many millennia where it made sense for men to be the main providers as the jobs were usually manual labour, and without contraception women would’ve been pregnant for much more of their lives (and likely sustained more birth injuries). I mean, we’ve been around for over 10,000 years and it’s only the last 100 where the majority of humans did office jobs, and already young women are outearning young men. The main piece of the puzzle to solve is the biological handicap of being the only sex able to give birth (notwithstanding the claims of trans activists).

I’m not really anti-feminist in particular, but I dislike most ‘isms’ and the cult mentality they foster. That also includes MGTOW etc, who seem to miss the irony that they’re doing most people a favour by going their own way.

I have no issue with men posting and chatting away on mumsnet with women. Often you don't know, and can't tell, they are men. But there really is a different type who do come on to threads, or boards, and demand attention. I'm surprised, Lord, that you haven't seen these threads as they are really very common!

The two types which are most infuriating are the men who start a thread on this Feminist board claiming to want us to 'educated him but that always, without fail, goes on about how we are all men-haters, how we should focus on the male suicide rate, how the women in his life are not victims, in fact his boss is female and there are mostly women in his office, then tells us how only 6% of women identify as a feminist. Often these threads descend into the man calling all the women bitches and getting banned and the thread gets pulled, so many that's why you don't see them. They also tend to target the boards at specific times.

The other one is the man who comes on to say about how he does all the work, earning, childcare, and housework, but his wife still won't have sex with him.

These two types are the ones I just can't be arsed with, and I'd like them to just fuck off and piss all over some other website. They happen far too regularly and I think they are mostly bullshit, sorry.

The "poor menz" is generally done when women are talking about a harmful women's issue (often one caused by men, or patriarchal culture) and posters start WATM!-ing all over the place. It is usually said in exasperation, given how many times women's issues are overlooked or derailed by men/men's issues. I do wish men would stop telling women to spread their emotional labour around wider so they can also sort out men's problems, when men (as a class) have all the power, influence, and money to do these things for themselves and fix things/provide services, if only they chose to.

On the other hand, I did enjoy the thread asking men their views on are TWAW. It was really nice to see men just talking normally about their views on that, and I was impressed on how well-informed many seemed to be on the issues (hope that doesn't sound patronising, I don't mean it to).

So, to summarise, no issues with men on mumsnet, just don't make it all about you. If you need help, post, sure, but some women are too busy focusing on helping women and that is perfectly acceptable.

YABU. MN provides support to all kinds of people, parents and non-parents. A lot of men don't feel able to open up in real life because it's not 'manly' to talk.

I ignore threads that I don't wish to post on, I suggest you do the same. Nobody is making you support anybody you don't want to.

@NiceGerbil

I mean the internet is male dominated. MN is a rare majority women place.

We've had DDOS attacks. Various organised trolling. A real life swat attack on a woman with kids in the house.

Other day there was that thing about tracking posts and posters via a fairly shit sounding bit of code.

Etc etc

Meanwhile the male dominated rest of the net has untold awfulness going on.

MN really pisses off a certain type of man.

How many women go into I dunno. FFJ groups or piston heads or whatever and behave like this? Thinking not so many.

From an fwr view major SM providers are deleting and banning women all over the place. While 'minor attracted' men chat freely...

We have one place. They are walking into a female place. Just read the room, basically.

I completely agree.

I remember a couple of years ago there were a couple of MRA who would post late at night on a weekend whilst mods were not around.

MN does attract that special kind of male.

I hate those men. They often seem like passive aggressive nightmares. And many have poor written English and write diffuse, self-justifying rambles.

I always think that I would find them deeply unsexy if I met them in real life with their creepy 'when I was on Mumsnet' attempt to appeal to my tender nature.

I have been on MN for a good few years now. I have never started a post. Before joining I was probably your classic mid forties white Male and I probably still am in some respects (although no longer in my forties ). MN has opened my eyes to many issues woman face, such as abuse etc and has been a great source of education to me of a woman's perspective. From the simple things like it never occurred to me not to walk behind a woman on a quiet street, to the more complex, such as the attack on the very definition of a woman by the trans lobby. These changes in my understanding have all come about through being on MN. Recently while explaining the current battle for women's safe spaces etc, to a group of my mates, their response was I guess understandable. It was a totally alien issue and they were not interested (in fact they sort of laughed as to why I had even brought it up). A few years ago I would have been the same as them.

@AmandaHoldensLips

WE ARE NOT YOUR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT HUMANS

This. I won’t do it for randoms in RL, I’m not doing it here. It reeks of men wanting sympathetic mummies and thinking Mumsnet is the swiftest way to get it. I always assume they’ve had short shrift in their RL.

WE ARE NOT YOUR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT HUMANS

This. I won’t do it for randoms in RL, I’m not doing it here. It reeks of men wanting sympathetic mummies and thinking Mumsnet is the swiftest way to get it. I always assume they’ve had short shrift in their RL

^All of this. Fine for women women who want to provide that emotional support - but leave women who don't want to, alone. We do not all have to be the same or provide emotional support to men randomly if it's not our personal choice.

They are walking into a female place. Just read the room, basically.

Yep.

I don't mind the odd respectful post from men in some places.

I've just started skipping over some posters who seem to feel they deserve all of the oxygen in the room.

I missed the part where he held the women to ransom and forced them to respond. Maybe he wanted his date to be enjoy the gift more than he wanted to "look good".

Does the thread where a married man realises he's gay actually exist or did you just use a touch of hypothetical homophobia to illustrate your point?

There is plenty that irritates me on these forums but I accept it and move on. Threads starting with " Man here" wind me up but I quickly forget about it.

The man down the street has as much of a right to post on a public forum as you do.

It’s not a bad idea if more men get in the mindset of being the emotional support human to more women. I mean after all it sounds very much to me like one of the central issues is women have kept civilisation afloat for thousands of years, but have yet to take an equal share in it’s bounties.

I don’t think that can be faced until we face the problem, that simply put men don’t on the whole have enough consideration for women. Wether that’s in the domestic sphere, in politics, the arts, the general world of work or really anywhere. I have without question been guilty of that myself.

I’ve been reading and posting here for many years, I’ve taken stock, been educated, gone out and educated myself, and even on a few occasions been on the receiving of genuine sympathy and support. I am very keen to pay that back.

I feel like I’m rambling a bit, so I guess what I’m saying is men often enter into places thinking “What can I take/gain from this?” Whereas women are often asking “Where can I be adding value?”. I guess what I’d like to do is work on asking the second question more and the former one less, and supporting women to do vice versa.

I can entirely understand why some may entertain suspicion my even being here, and I am leaning perhaps towards posting less often and reading more, but I have taken an awful lot of what I have learned here and shared it in more traditionally Male spaces.

women are often asking “Where can I be adding value?”

No offense, Dervel, but I'm usually asking 'where can I get a cup of tea and a sit down'.

I am just not sure that women are in any way more inclined to offer help/support, it's just that it's more often demanded/expected of us.

Anyway, it's not so much Any Men that post here that tick me off, it's the ones that

1. Want to shift the focus of the feminist forum to men and men's issues

and

1. Insist on denying women their own experiences, keep telling us we're wrong to feel the way we do, and

1. Expect women to listen to screeds of their waffle without once thinking to read/listen themselves first. You'll have seen these posters, they come and make a large Announcement and then get really pissed off when they are ignored/rebuffed.

The internet equivalent of manspreading, I suppose.

Other than that, I personally have no issue with men posting on most of the threads here. And to be fair, if a woman came and did the above it would irritate me too, it just seems (as far as I can tell) to happen less often.

This is a pretty multifaceted point IMO. One could reverse it and say why don’t feminists focus on women rather than knocking men?

When a woman upthread said she was concentrating her energies on helping women, we got a three page tangent berating her for bigotry!