Men using Mumsnet for support

[LoeliaPonsonby]

Bear with me. This is not particularly coherent and I am not as eloquent as many of you on here.

But I am naffed off with the increasing number of men using Mumsnet for emotional support (Fully prepared to be told actually it’s always been this way and it’s all in my head). Why are they choosing Mumsnet for their emotional labours? What’s wrong with Pistonheads, or Digital Spy, or another interest based forum?

It just massively gets my back up. I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no. But when a man comes along and wants advice about the fact he’s not happy in his marriage, or that he’s realised he’s gay and has screwed over his wife and family (but let’s not talk about them), I just want to say, just fuuuuuck offfff. We are all busy picking up the pieces of the women who’ve been screwed over by your emotional cowardice, can’t you find some men to sort you out?

In real life, I don’t believe in tribalism, in only helping my own “kind”. But on MN it really pisses me off.

So I don’t know what I’m asking. Or why I’m posting this.

@Blibbyblobby So I agree - if people are using you or stalling you for their own malicious gain then of course you're under no obligation to help them out. But the poster said she'd avoid helping most men, and I don't think most men are out to get you when asking for help.

@WeeBisom

I’m loving the astonishment of some posters at the sheer gall of a woman actively refusing to help men.

Me too.

We’ve had ‘Be Kind’ and ‘You Hateful bigots’ and ‘Do you hate animals too? ‘

I think it’s time for ‘I hope none of you have sons’ or ‘How would you like someone to treat your father / brother like that?’.

And “ This is why no one ever reads the FWR boards because you are all nasty “ and “ I was going to convert and become a feminist but now I won’t because you are all so mean “.

Or the faux naive “ But I thought feminism was about being nice to people “.

I think you can be a feminist and be nice to people, @S00LA. I do it all of the time.

I think you are rather missing the social and cultural context of Being Nice , which is what is being discussed here.

Exactly, does it have to be an either or situation?!
Being feminist doesn't mean you (general you) have to be a dick to others just because.
It is possible to be both, being feminist isn't a get out to excuse to general shittiness

I think you are rather missing the social and cultural context of Being Nice , which is what is being discussed here

No, women don't have to Be Nice, I agree, but you're also rather missing the point that there's more than that at play here.

The pity ploy is a classic player strategy and comes naturally to narcissistic types.

I agree with you OP.

@Quaagars

Exactly, does it have to be an either or situation?! Being feminist doesn't mean you (general you) have to be a dick to others just because. It is possible to be both, being feminist isn't a get out to excuse to general shittiness

Now, that's interesting.

You've distilled 'woman saying no to a request' to 'be[ing] a dick]'.

I initially thought her position was a bit odd, but her choice, whatever. But you see the refusal on its own as unkind, and this makes me see her point far more. I would've thought that it was normal to view

1. saying yes to a request for help as kind,
2. refusing as neutral (we all have our own stuff going on, don't we?),
3. and actively being rude about the request being made at all as 'be[ing] a dick].

It was discussed on MN the other night how a ordinary passer-by has no legal obligation to pick a drowning child out of a puddle, because actions aren't compelled, and this contrasts nicely with that!

Running on the risk of speaking for @Quaagars (if so, very sorry!) I think by being a "dick" she meant refusing to help someone solely due to their sex, as opposed to rejecting helping someone for other personal reasons.

Looking like a kind person isn't always a good thing. I've seen a lot of women's careers stall because of it. The men and younger women see them as Mums who are there to look after other people not be the ones with goals, ambitions and progression for themselves

I agree @Blibbyblobby. At work, women are asked to organise the catering and take the minutes ( low status admin jobs ) while men are asked to chair the meeting ( high status, less work ). Which by some huge coincidence mirrors the role of women as mothers and universal caretakers.

Men get to put on their CV that they were chair of x committee, they get to shape the agenda and raise their profile in the organisation , be seen as decision makers.

Which is why women should not “ be nice and kind “ at work by agreeing to take all the low status jobs.

As a Pp said, men and clearly some women are ASTOUNDED at this idea. Obviously service humans should always be ready and willing to serve, whatever to cost to themselves.

Running on the risk of speaking for @Quaagars (if so, very sorry!) I think by being a "dick" she meant refusing to help someone solely due to their sex, as opposed to rejecting helping someone for other personal reasons

Exactly that

It doesn't matter.

Kindness is going beyond what you are required to do. There has to be a neutral option. Otherwise there is no such thing as kindness.

@S00LA
"Which is why women should not be nice and kind at work by agreeing to take all the low status jobs.
As a Pp said, men and clearly some women are ASTOUNDED at this idea. Obviously service humans should always be ready and willing to serve, whatever to cost to themselves.*

Who is calling women "service humans"? You're perfectly entitled to reject helping people, but if it's solely for the reasons of not wanting to help them because they're men then I see that as discriminatory. Men are also entitled to not help women because they're women (in a social environment) but I still think they're discriminatory anyway.

Don't help people if you don't want to, but if it's only for the reasons of sex then I think that's very unreasonable.

Obviously service humans

Service humans
Seriously, why do you see yourself as that?
Speak for yourself.

Outside of circumstances covered by the Equality Act, a woman is perfectly entitled to say no to helping any person for any reason. Including their sex.

As they say elsewhere on Mumsnet, NO is a complete sentence. Men can sort themselves out.

As they say elsewhere on Mumsnet, NO is a complete sentence. Men can sort themselves out

YY. There’s millions of other men in the world, I’m sure they can find one.

Who is calling women "service humans"?
Exactly! Bit of projection going on there, and seemingly not coming from men!

@Quaagars

Obviously service humans

Service humans
Seriously, why do you see yourself as that?
Speak for yourself.

Maybe you post a lot?

I've never seen myself as a service human before, but your posts have made me abruptly aware that other people might see me as that.

@Cocothefirst Yep, everyone is entitled to say no if they don't want to do something. But I'm also entitled to think if it's solely because of the sex of the person asking, that's a shitty way to behave. That's all.

@Cocothefirst Yep, everyone is entitled to say no if they don't want to do something. But I'm also entitled to think if it's solely because of the sex of the person asking, that's a shitty way to behave. That's all.

We'll have to agree to disagree.

Maybe you post a lot

I'm the reason you see yourself as a service human? Not entirely sure how you come to that conclusion.

I've never seen myself as a service human before
You literally just referred to yourself as one.

We'll have to agree to disagree

So if a man refused to help you solely because you're a woman, that'd be OK?
No dynamics at play, just one person wanting help from another.
You'd be OK with him saying no just because of your sex?

@feministfemme

I think you can be a feminist and be nice to people, *@S00LA*. I do it all of the time.

Are you sure about that? The first part, I mean.

You don’t seem to have any understanding of the way the world is weighted against women in favour of men, or of the unacceptable and unequal burden placed on women, relative to men, when it comes to taking care of others for little or no reward. And indeed when it comes to “being nice” in general.

Which I find really surprising in someone who identifies as a feminist.

[quote feministfemme]@Cocothefirst Yep, everyone is entitled to say no if they don't want to do something. But I'm also entitled to think if it's solely because of the sex of the person asking, that's a shitty way to behave. That's all.[/quote]
Which means that the moment a woman becomes aware that she doesn't want to agree to the request because the person requesting assistance is male, she is morally required to agree or be 'shitty'.

Whereas Jane down the road who just doesn't want to do it, "just because', is still allowed to say no.

@Quaagars

Maybe you post a lot I'm the reason you see yourself as a service human? Not entirely sure how you come to that conclusion.

I've never seen myself as a service human before
You literally just referred to yourself as one.

No I didn't. Check usernames.