Men using Mumsnet for support

[LoeliaPonsonby]

Bear with me. This is not particularly coherent and I am not as eloquent as many of you on here.

But I am naffed off with the increasing number of men using Mumsnet for emotional support (Fully prepared to be told actually it’s always been this way and it’s all in my head). Why are they choosing Mumsnet for their emotional labours? What’s wrong with Pistonheads, or Digital Spy, or another interest based forum?

It just massively gets my back up. I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no. But when a man comes along and wants advice about the fact he’s not happy in his marriage, or that he’s realised he’s gay and has screwed over his wife and family (but let’s not talk about them), I just want to say, just fuuuuuck offfff. We are all busy picking up the pieces of the women who’ve been screwed over by your emotional cowardice, can’t you find some men to sort you out?

In real life, I don’t believe in tribalism, in only helping my own “kind”. But on MN it really pisses me off.

So I don’t know what I’m asking. Or why I’m posting this.

The dadsnet section exists on Mumsnet.

They can in the first instance post there. The thread will go to Active as most others do.

We even have it in this section.

'Women, why are you so pissed off about x issue? Educate me.'

I would have no truck with bad faith posters, but I can imagine a man who is perhaps having relationship difficulties, wanting to hear neutral women’s perspective on it, or seek advice on how best to resolve things with his wife.
For example, if he fears that she may be developing post natal depression, but refuses to see a doctor, and he wants advice on how best to help her. I doubt his mates at the pub, or a male sports/cars/diy forum would be much use.

@AmandaHoldensLips

WE ARE NOT YOUR EMOTIONAL SUPPORT HUMANS

That about sums it up.

Yes, men are free to post here. There are some really good eggs among them (DrTwo and DisgraceToTheYChromosome spring to mind).

But you do get some who clearly think "Mumsnet... Mum... Waaaaahhh Mummy, I've (emotionally) skinned my knee." They are tedious.

And you definitely get some who are doing the "About a Boy" creepy as fuck thing of "yay, a forum full of women, surely some of them are low-hanging fruit for a DM with a dick pick and a quick booty call if I stumble upon one in the same area as me."

@SenselessUbiquity

I suppose it's a hazard of being good at what we do - supporting each other. Personally I have made the decision not to voluntarily support men any more* (with certain very specific exceptions) and so I just apply that on here, as I do in real life.

• Men often explicitly or implicitly ask me to do things that will make their lives easier. If it will not cause undue risk to me or my livelihood, I politely decline, AND within the day find a context in which I can put that effort towards something a woman is doing instead. They are often very surprised and it is sometimes very rewarding

Senseless, I am in awe of you. This will be my motto going forward. (oh and apologies for using stupid management speak, I'm trying to get into work mode while I browse on here!!!).

I will add, the dadsnet section is very slow in traffic, although it was set up on request. Not so much now, but five years or more ago it was regular for a 'wahhhh you've got a mum's place to talk, why haven't you provided dads with the same facilities you mean bunch of man-haters' post to arrive, often begun with the good old classic 'man here' statement at the top of the post. They were often rather surprised at the explanation that a) if they wanted something missing how about organising it rather than whining at women about daring to use something without first providing the same or better to men, b) dadsnet was right there if they wanted a specifically dad spaces, and c) they were as welcome to use all the boards as anyone else, it just wasn't going to involve any different treatment or instructions that female posters got.

Men often explicitly or implicitly ask me to do things that will make their lives easier. If it will not cause undue risk to me or my livelihood, I politely decline, AND within the day find a context in which I can put that effort towards something a woman is doing instead. They are often very surprised and it is sometimes very rewarding

See, I just don't get this, honestly not being goady, just baffled!
You'd deliberately go out of your way to say no to helping someone just because they're male?
Then try and find a woman who may or may not need help in order, for what, to make yourself feel better?
How about just helping people out if they need help?
That to me is like looking for a battle just for the sake of it.

@quaagars Yeah I'm not fully understanding this behaviour either. Is it not a virtue to help out if you can, irrespective of sex?

They're always perfect martyrs with evil wives. Cue long story and wanting to bask in MN women telling them how GREAT they are and how AWFUL the wife is. That attention from women is very important to the sainted man. Men can and do post, why not? Although noting its 'Mumsnetters' not 'Men-Netters. But if a woman isn't interested in responding to their dilemma that's understandable, and absolutely fine. I swerve those posts too.

You don't have to understand it Quaggars.

It is just something that women - quite rightly - have undertaken to do.

No explanations. No apologies. No quibbles.

@PurpleHoodie Why though? Unless you're with someone who takes the piss involving asking you for favours (man or woman!) I don't know why you wouldn't help them. Or if you were to reject them for whatever reason, it shouldn't solely be on the basis of sex IMO.

[quote feministfemme]@quaagars Yeah I'm not fully understanding this behaviour either. Is it not a virtue to help out if you can, irrespective of sex?[/quote]
Exactly, if I could help out, I would, it wouldn't occur to me to think "no because you're a man"!
Also comes across as a little bit patronising to try and find a woman who needs helping more.
Helping should mean just that - helping if you can or want to, not with strings or conditions attached and who is deemed more "worthy" of help.

Unless you're with someone who takes the piss involving asking you for favours (man or woman!)

Well, yeah, then they can bog off, agreed lol
Agree, whether you're male or female should have no bearing, otherwise it's just your prejudices coming into play, and then it's not really help at all, is it?

@Quaagars I think I'd be a little uncomfortable if someone came up to me and said "Darren from Accounting has an issue with his printer, but I'm going to help with YOURS because you're a woman and he's not."

In my book anyway you help out people you want (and have the capacity) to help, not as a political or social statement.

Exactly, if I thought I was being helped just because I'm a woman I'd be like

[quote feministfemme]@quaagars Yeah I'm not fully understanding this behaviour either. Is it not a virtue to help out if you can, irrespective of sex?[/quote]
Perhaps, but perpetuating the idea that bearing emotional burden is women's work isn't helpful to women or men.
It's fine by me if a woman is happy to help anyone. It's not fine if some men think it's her role to do that.

So are men only welcome if they come with endless expert advice, like PigletJohn with his encyclopaedic knowledge of plumbing, building and electricals?
Or PRH47bridge endlessly and patiently advising on schools admissions and various other legal areas?

It's difficult: obviously there are men who use MN to manipulate and co-erce, and they need to be recognised as such.

But others have heartfelt issues and genuinely want to hear from women.

And there are endless female trolls and wind-up merchants, eliciting loads of advice and then drip feeding, ignoring, or else being aggressive to anyone who doesn't agree with them.

For me It is about the behaviour, not sex of the poster.

Also men who contribute significant emotionally valuable advice - one who posts about fostering and adoption , etc.

...actually, make that, it's not ok if anyone thinks it's the woman's role.

@ErrolTheDragon No I agree that women shouldn't have to labour the burdens of other people solely because they're women. But I also don't think saying the equivalent of "You're a man so I won't help you" really achieves much other than not looking like a kind person

I agree. It's OK when men join the general conversation but you do get some whose first post and often their only contribution to Mumsnet, is a long detailed emotional issue.

There have also been men on the dating threads who have PM'd women and even met up with them. They basically used their knowledge and the women's vulnerability to get under the women's usual defences.

Different issue but I also found with online dating that after a short relationship that a man would often want to be "friends" but they'd only contact if they were having some emotional issue and wanted me to talk it through with them. I felt like rent a therapist (only for £0) rather than a friend!

It's fine by me if a woman is happy to help anyone. It's not fine if some men think it's her role to do that

True, but it's also not fine for women to deny help just because of their sex, no other reason - it'd be different if it was someone taking the piss though/expecting it, agreed.
That's not what was going on though by the sounds of it with the pp, just says no 'cos male and tries to find a woman to "help" instead, even if they look surprised
They are often very surprised
Probably thinking "WTF, did I ask for help?"
As opposed to someone who genuinely needed it and told no

I think it's fine for any woman to decide who she wants to expend her emotional labour on tbh. I wouldn't criticise a black person from prioritising black people, or a person with a disability prioritising someone with the same issues; would you?

True, but it's also not fine for women to deny help just because of their sex, no other reason - it'd be different if it was someone taking the piss though/expecting it, agreed.

It's fine for women to say no to helping anyone for any reason. FTFY.

The basic difference is that many posters here have ambiguous user names and mostly in most conversations no one has the faintest idea of the sex of the poster, because it's wholly irrelevant.

If a poster wants help or advice on any issue then their sex may become apparent in the post or it may not, and they're not bothered who offers this help or advice, and mostly the sex of everyone replying to them is invisible. Which is great.

This is qualitatively rather different to the posts that start 'man here' (which usually signals how it is going to go) which often announce from the start what expectations, stereotypes and prejudices are in play. On FWR for example it usually leads straight into the 'educate me' demands, or the 'whatever hypothesis - discuss' demands, or the flat out goady stuff. You don't see posts from women doing this. What you do often see is the socialised response from some women change when told they are speaking to a man.

As a side note, I used to send out email updates and practical information for a group I ran with several other leaders. Three female leaders, two males, users of all ages and both sexes (and multiple genders). There were several women who would respond to any information sent out with 'what? I don't understand? I don't get it?' and they would continue this until the information was sent to them by one of the male leaders. Seriously. It got quite funny. Sometimes the female leaders would intentionally take the query and explain, in detail, before handing over to a male leader and seeing the immediate 'oh thank you now it makes sense!' reply. Once or twice when we got really fed up, a female leader would write the reply and the male leader would send it under his name. It was purely the fact of having received the info from a man that made the difference. Kind of reverse mansplaining.