Men using Mumsnet for support

[LoeliaPonsonby]

Bear with me. This is not particularly coherent and I am not as eloquent as many of you on here.

But I am naffed off with the increasing number of men using Mumsnet for emotional support (Fully prepared to be told actually it’s always been this way and it’s all in my head). Why are they choosing Mumsnet for their emotional labours? What’s wrong with Pistonheads, or Digital Spy, or another interest based forum?

It just massively gets my back up. I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no. But when a man comes along and wants advice about the fact he’s not happy in his marriage, or that he’s realised he’s gay and has screwed over his wife and family (but let’s not talk about them), I just want to say, just fuuuuuck offfff. We are all busy picking up the pieces of the women who’ve been screwed over by your emotional cowardice, can’t you find some men to sort you out?

In real life, I don’t believe in tribalism, in only helping my own “kind”. But on MN it really pisses me off.

So I don’t know what I’m asking. Or why I’m posting this.

@ErrolTheDragon
I'm a disabled person, but I wouldn't say "I'm not helping you because you're able bodied / non-disabled" and instead going to go and help a disabled person who didn't ask for it. I'd actually see that as pretty rude to both of the people involved.

It's fine for women to say no to helping anyone for any reason. FTFY

Of course, I agree - but when it is SOLELY because of your sex, no other reason, then that's veering into discrimination.
It wouldn't be OK for a man to refuse me help solely because I'm a woman, no other reason, and so it shouldn't be the same the other way round.

Where did this notion about going in to help someone who didn't ask for help come from? That's just a rather odd straw man.
Of course who you help is up to you, but it's entirely normal for a group with particular experiences and sympathies to choose to prioritise that group for their voluntary help. (Im certainly not talking about public services etc).

[quote feministfemme]@ErrolTheDragon
I'm a disabled person, but I wouldn't say "I'm not helping you because you're able bodied / non-disabled" and instead going to go and help a disabled person who didn't ask for it. I'd actually see that as pretty rude to both of the people involved.[/quote]
Exactly
It's so fucking patronising!
I mean, not only is it kind of discriminatory towards men, it's also incredibly patronising to think the reason someone has just helped you out is because they think as a woman you're more in need (even if you haven't asked for help in the first place!)

Of course, I agree - but when it is SOLELY because of your sex, no other reason, then that's veering into discrimination.

This is a website and no poster is obliged to help another. This isn't about the provision of goods and services which is of course covered by equality legislation.

when it is SOLELY because of your sex, no other reason, then that's veering into discrimination.

In the context we're discussing, it's not just because the person is a man; rather, it's men who seem to be specifically demanding support from women. They're the ones starting off with the sexism.

Where did this notion about going in to help someone who didn't ask for help come from? That's just a rather odd straw man

Have you read the thread?
It's not a strawman, it was referring to a pp.
Who would say no to a man, but then try and find a woman to help instead "even if they were surprised" (which can read as they hadn't asked for help in the first place, seeing as the having to find one to help and would explain the surprise) all to make the pp feel "rewarded" (ie better about her decisions)

I can put that effort towards something a woman is doing instead. They are often very surprised

@ErrolTheDragon I just see this part as seeking out women to help as a rejection of helping out men. The fact that "they are very often surprised" (to me anyway) suggests that it's not that the poster was prioritising who they spent their time on, more that they were rejecting people on the basis of sex and going out and finding people to help instead who didn't need it - mostly because they were the acceptable sex.

I'd usually help out as many people as I can, and if I had to prioritise helping then I'd do it based on who needed more help not on sex or gender.

Mumsnet is for parents by parents which includes men. If you’re “naffed off” because you are seeing more men posting, then that’s a you problem, not a problem with mumsnet.

Why don't you (general you) set up your own forum for female posters only?

That would probably be classed as a hate crime

@ErrolTheDragon

when it is SOLELY because of your sex, no other reason, then that's veering into discrimination.

In the context we're discussing, it's not just because the person is a man; rather, it's men who seem to be specifically demanding support from women. They're the ones starting off with the sexism.

But since mumsnet is mixed sex, they’re not specifically seeking support from women, but from parents of both sexes.

This is a website and no poster is obliged to help another. This isn't about the provision of goods and services which is of course covered by equality legislation

I was referring to a poster on this thread who said what they do in RL.
Not "on a website", that's spectacularly missing the point, unless you didn't see that post

I’m loving the astonishment of some posters at the sheer gall of a woman actively refusing to help men.

I don't really see a problem as long as they're posting 'in the spirit of Mumsnet'.

DMing posters for spurious reasons and treating Mumsnet as a hook-up site is clearly not on - but that's not something we'd accept from female posters, either - at least, I wouldn't.

@weebisom Yes, because I don't think reversing sexist behaviour cancels it out. If a man said "I actively refuse to help women when they ask me for help" I'd be pretty astonished as well.

@WeeBisom

I’m loving the astonishment of some posters at the sheer gall of a woman actively refusing to help men.

Nobody's said there's anything wrong with refusing to help men, FFS lol Just if that's you're only reason, "because you're a man!" maybe look at why that is? Nothing wrong with refusing help to men at all.

I do wonder why men post here for relationship advice as they always get a verbal kicking and being blamed for any relationship problem. Female partner being an absolute bitch? Well you must have caused it by blah blah blah. Wife having an emotional affair? You must be neglecting her.

This barrage sometimes leads to them pointlessly defending their position which then leads to posters saying that they are making themselves out to be perfect (Deceecherry’s post below is a brilliant example).

Not one of these posts is complete by someone saying “well I’d like to hear your wife’s version of events” which is never said when a woman is posting about issues.

I always figure that the guy is an absolute naive idiot for posting somewhere where he’ll never ever get a fair hearing.

Posters saying but it’s MUMSnet is fair enough but perhaps they should change the slogan for Parents as it patently isn’t.

@SenselessUbiquity

I suppose it's a hazard of being good at what we do - supporting each other. Personally I have made the decision not to voluntarily support men any more* (with certain very specific exceptions) and so I just apply that on here, as I do in real life.

• Men often explicitly or implicitly ask me to do things that will make their lives easier. If it will not cause undue risk to me or my livelihood, I politely decline, AND within the day find a context in which I can put that effort towards something a woman is doing instead. They are often very surprised and it is sometimes very rewarding

I think this is a great idea.

That was the post posters have been referring to for those who were saying "straw man, but it's a website"
Not straw man, not website, RL.

I think this is a great idea

Which bit?
The bit that implies I'd only be being helped because I'm a woman, even if I might not even have asked for it (hence the surprise) is a pretty bloody patronising move.

I have no problem with men posting on here. As it's "for parents, by parents"
Since when is it "for mother's, by mother's"
The problem arises when men use it to stalk their ex partners etc.

@TikTakTikTak
It’s wrong and twisted imho because it’s sexist to purposely refuse all men just because they are the opposite sex and it’s all about the giver getting a good rush of feelings for herself that she only gets by helping women especially women who didn’t ask for and don’t actually need her help.

I believe we should help any human or creature in need. Would you check the sex of a hungry stray dog or cat before helping it and kick a male one away? Would you see a lost boy and go, Er no, that’s a manchild so no help from me.? Most people wouldn’t and it’s sad to think some women think it a good think to treat a man in need worse than they’d treat a dog in need.

Yes, I know what you mean OP.

There are some men who post regularly in specialist areas and are as great an asset as the women who do the same.

There are men who post or chip in on various topics - that's no problem at all.

But yes the stalkish, manipulative ones asking women to support them emotionally are irritating at the very least.

I also tend to ignore them, as they out their agenda pretty quickly usually.

I'm surprised you posted in Feminism chat that Mumsnet is for women and PistonHeads is for men!

I 'found' mumsmet when reading about pregnancy related conditions my partner had and it had some great insight and discussion threads. I didn't find these on a car forum for some reason.

I just like how mumsnet posts are typically about day-to-day life, I've not seen that on any male dominated forums.

[quote feministfemme]@ErrolTheDragon No I agree that women shouldn't have to labour the burdens of other people solely because they're women. But I also don't think saying the equivalent of "You're a man so I won't help you" really achieves much other than not looking like a kind person[/quote]
Looking like a kind person isn't always a good thing. I've seen a lot of women's careers stall because of it. The men and younger women see them as Mums who are there to look after other people not be the ones with goals, ambitions and progression for themselves.