Men using Mumsnet for support

[LoeliaPonsonby]

Bear with me. This is not particularly coherent and I am not as eloquent as many of you on here.

But I am naffed off with the increasing number of men using Mumsnet for emotional support (Fully prepared to be told actually it’s always been this way and it’s all in my head). Why are they choosing Mumsnet for their emotional labours? What’s wrong with Pistonheads, or Digital Spy, or another interest based forum?

It just massively gets my back up. I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no. But when a man comes along and wants advice about the fact he’s not happy in his marriage, or that he’s realised he’s gay and has screwed over his wife and family (but let’s not talk about them), I just want to say, just fuuuuuck offfff. We are all busy picking up the pieces of the women who’ve been screwed over by your emotional cowardice, can’t you find some men to sort you out?

In real life, I don’t believe in tribalism, in only helping my own “kind”. But on MN it really pisses me off.

So I don’t know what I’m asking. Or why I’m posting this.

The parenting help/comments don't bother me at all but the ones that are either slagging off their wife/ex shouldn't be allowed or at least MNers should be telling them to bore off.

The ones that irk me the most are the ones where the man posting is the complete exception to the rule. So they post about how much child support they pay and how much they look after their children then come out with the same old shite of "I'm aware a lot of men aren't like me" eurgh. Makes me feel queasy every time.

Hmm. I don't really know if there is any way to sort out posters with honest vs dishonest motives, apart from reading what they say.

There are certain posters who clearly have some underlying agenda, and it can be men or women, and t's pretty annoying.

I do generally think a man looking for relationship advice would be better off on a more male oriented place or asking male friends. But I can think of reasons a man might rather ask women.

There is a thread going at the moment which perfectly illustrates men's lack of involvement in 'day to day life': a poster who is asking which of her friends she should continue to provide free childcare to during lockdown- her single parent friend or her married friend whose partner has a demanding job and cannot possibly take 2 hours out of his busy day just one day a week to look after his own child during exceptional circumstances.

I do not know a single woman whose work life has continued uninterrupted by childcare/home learning issues through the course of this pandemic. And yet here is a man (and I'm sure he's a very nice man) who is perfectly happy for a woman to provide free childcare so that his career can continue unimpeded.

I do know many men who seem to have taken the opportunity provided by a lack of commute and morning scramble to out in even more hours at work. I don't work in academia so I didn't know that male output went up during lockdown but it doesn't surprise me one bit.

I'm not annoyed about it. If they open, honest and willing to get criticism as well as sympathy or advice, I don't see a huge issue. Women can choose not to comment if they want to, but many are happy to do so. Some of their posts are a bit dodgy but they usually get seen off by incredibly rageful posters, but I don't see it as a huge problem, much as I usually support female only spaces.

Men often come to Mumsnet because they feel they have nothing comparable to go to. Maybe they have a lot of male friends who they think are going to give rubbish advice and think they should try something different. Some of them don't understand why their wife is behaving in a certain way and maybe the wife isn't communicating well. They come on here because they want a women's perspective without asking women in their own lives for help (maybe the problems are intimate).

I don't think it's unreasonable to ignore a request for help for any arbitrary or well founded reason. Given that there's no requirement to respond to any given message could I ask what your feelings are about those who do respond? (primarily LoeliaPonsonby but I'm also interested in anyone with similar views)

I ask because I both agree and disagree with the idea of everyone having a limited 'pool' of help they can provide. Naturally, there are only so many hours in a day but I don't think that any one response given to a question posed by a man represents one less response to a question posed by a woman (and vice versa). This is where I think the Donkey Sanctuary analogy posed by PearPickingPorky slightly falls apart: discussions aren't pure currency. Everyone has a unique collection of interests, knowledge and topical energy (the drive to discuss a given topic).

For me, feminism is a fight against misogyny on individual and society-wide levels, working to dismantle obstacles and prejudices which are detrimental to women.

My experience has been that both men and women have deeply ingrained misogynistic views which are reinforced in society. I would seek, where I could, to challenge those views or to address obstacles or prejudices.

I can't really reduce the above to being about an individual man, or even all men. I hope I would refuse a request, from anyone, male or female, that I felt was rooted in misogyny.

Thank you for this thread OP, it articulates something I've thought too.

Naturally, there are only so many hours in a day but I don't think that any one response given to a question posed by a man represents one less response to a question posed by a woman (and vice versa)

It's not just the time taken to post, though. Posting requires reading through a thread, usually asking questions and reading responses. There is something of an emotional investment made.

It's perfectly understandable if women choose to make that investment of time and effort only for other women.

It's not just the time taken to post, though. Posting requires reading through a thread, usually asking questions and reading responses. There is something of an emotional investment made.

I agree, the specific time taken to reply was an absolute baseline which I would say generally isn't the limiting factor. My disagreement is that a given woman responding to a given man doesn't represent one less response to another woman. I don't personally operate that way and I don't think there are many that do but I may be wrong.

It's perfectly understandable if women choose to make that investment of time and effort only for other women.

I also agree with this (along with any reason why anyone might not want to take the time and effort to respond). Apologies if I gave the impression that I was taking anyone to task over their choices in this respect.

Really interesting posts from people, thank you.

I guess when I post in a helpful capacity on here, it’s with a kind of community spirit. That the community here would help me out if I needed it, and together the member contributions make up the community. When I see a man posting and looking for advice, I just think they are never going to pay it forward, they aren’t going to pass on the benefits of their knowledge to other men or people in the same situation. And I mean that in regards to emotionally charged questions. They generally won’t have any problems providing advice on the best pair of running shoes or the best oxygen free hifi cables, but they are never going to be on the middle of the night mind your worries thread, or even talking through their mate’s problems down the pub.

And yes, anyone can post on Mumsnet. But it’s an overwhelmingly female space and a lot of the male posters spectacularly fail to read the room in a way I’ve never seen on other, mostly male-populated fora. Sure, anyone can take the minutes in a meeting. Funny how it always seems to be a woman who’s asked. Men can ask other men for help, and they ask women instead. The answer should be for men to provide more of their own support systems, and when they can manage that then we can talk about getting women to chip in too.

I’m also fairly sure that most of us can tell when it’s a man posting, whether they declare it or not.

When I see a man posting and looking for advice, I just think they are never going to pay it forward, they aren’t going to pass on the benefits of their knowledge to other men or people in the same situation. And I mean that in regards to emotionally charged questions. They generally won’t have any problems providing advice on the best pair of running shoes or the best oxygen free hifi cables

That's the bit I don't get - just because they're a man, means they automatically won't help out others or give advice? So because of that nobody else should?

Quaagars - I don’t think I’ve said that nobody else should. I’ve tried to explain why I object to providing yet more help to a class that is already systematically advantaged and expects women to give even more, whilst not returning the favour in any meaningful way.

And actually, because they are a man it does appear to mean they aren’t giving out advice on how to maintain functional relationships. Because if there’s a place where men are routinely helping each other unpick difficult relationships, support children going through difficulties and dealing with aged parents to name but a few issues that crop up on here, they’ve done a bloody good job of keeping it a secret.

@LoeliaPonsonby

And actually, because they are a man it does appear to mean they aren’t giving out advice on how to maintain functional relationships. Because if there’s a place where men are routinely helping each other unpick difficult relationships, support children going through difficulties and dealing with aged parents to name but a few issues that crop up on here, they’ve done a bloody good job of keeping it a secret.

Actually I do know a few male-dominated forums that have that type of support in them, but it's hidden in members-only topics. Interestingly the forum that is most no-holds-barred when it comes to emotional honesty and support is also the one with the strictest moderation of sexist, racist or homophobic "banter", which I suspect is not a coincidence.

I don't mind if it's a genuine search for support . A lot of men have said to me that they find it easier to confide in women.

However, I am with you on those seeking apologists for shoddy behaviour or those claiming to be the perfect man (vom).

I've supsected a few on threads of women moaning about their dh's poor contribution to childcare and housework too. I wonder why they need to take out their frustrations on women they've never met. Most odd

I’m happy as long as they are not trying to cause trouble.

Totally agree op it’s a “you know it when you see it” thing.

Remember one when the mask slipped and the chap previously lauding himself as a “nice guy” started Saying that henceforth he would treat women badly as he might as well if not properly appreciated. Was quite chilling actually

@MsTSwift

Totally agree op it’s a “you know it when you see it” thing.

Remember one when the mask slipped and the chap previously lauding himself as a “nice guy” started Saying that henceforth he would treat women badly as he might as well if not properly appreciated. Was quite chilling actually

Yes I remember that one. At first he was lauded by the usual suspects “Oh you are so wonderful she is lucky to have you “. But as soon as more perceptive posters pointed out the holes in his story, he became angry and attacking.

“ Now I’m going to treat all women badly and it’s YOUR FAULT for disagreeing with me “.

Which is presumably exactly how he behaves in RL relationships with women.

I agree it was chilling as he went from zero to one hundred in a few posts.

I never trust a man who labels himself as such.

"I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no."

Wow op. How generous of you. I didn't realise mumsnet had a queen.

@SkyMoo1

"I have no problem with random women asking for advice, first time poster or no."

Wow op. How generous of you. I didn't realise mumsnet had a queen.

Also must have some sort of psychic sense that "knows" if a poster is male or not! Seeing as that "sense" regularly falls down on here where accusing random women of being men, probably isn't very accurate a sense either One way of getting round asking for advice if you're a bloke on MN, pretend you're a woman lol

Or just don't mention it?"My partner is moody all the time and throws things at me when I say hello" does not require a "hello there ladies, I'm a man here for your advice" announcement for context. Nor does "our kid won't eat breakfast" or "shit, my boss wants an urgent meeting", or "AIBU to want a reply to my text message within a day" etc.

There is something odd in the way some men post here emphasising that they're men, and expecting a supportive room full of women to flock to them with praise and guidance. Or to get the magic answer to "what all women think".

And you don't seem to see lots of men posting routinely on Mumsnet when people ask for advice. You might argue that is because of posters like the OP, but I think its probably more likely that mums are the default parents in most families, who do the majority of "the mental load" and that's why this site is more female-dominated.

Men and women are fundamentally different in many aspects, a man seeking advice from another man will get a mans perspective. Seeking advice from a woman may help them see a different side to the argument.

Seeking input from a person with a different position to you can only ever be a good thing.

Or just don't mention it?"My partner is moody all the time and throws things at me when I say hello" does not require a "hello there ladies, I'm a man here for your advice" announcement for context. Nor does "our kid won't eat breakfast" or "shit, my boss wants an urgent meeting", or "AIBU to want a reply to my text message within a day" etc.

I don't think it's necessarily done in the sense of "Fanfare, behold I am a MAN!" I'd guess most men posting here are aware it's a mainly female space and don't want to intrude without acknowledging they are intruding, or at least being open that they are not women.