I am being asked to go into a meeting and introduce my pronouns to everyone in an hour and a half!

[WhatTheFuckHappenedHere]

I am part of a work group tasked with running a big event that will take almost a year to plan. The first meeting is in an hour and a half over Zoom. The organiser, who I've never met, and goes by they/them pronouns according to the email signature, sent round an email reminder this morning with the meeting link, and including an agenda. The first thing on it is to introduce ourselves, our work area, an our gender pronouns. I don't really want to do this, but I need to work with this person and the group as a whole for the best part of a year! I'm feeling like I'll just have to go along with it lest I get accused of enacting literal and actual violence. Any advice?

@FannyCann

Totally agree WeBuiltThisBuffetOnSausageRoll

I've read one or two articles/interviews with individuals who use they/them, it becomes a real struggle, and very confusing as one naturally defaults to understanding it as a plural in much of the text.

"After finishing school they went on to RADA" easy enough, and neutral, but then you come to "they joined a group called The Specials and they toured the UK with great success" suddenly "they" is referring to the group until you add "as a backing singer"...

(I used to quite like the Specials and enjoyed a live show, I have no idea if they have special pronouns these days.)

I used to have to work with related trans people - both “they”. Was a bit confusing at times whether “they” referred to one or both of them together, or one of them working with another person, or alone. It all felt a bit silly. Why go to all the trouble of changing to the opposite gender, to then not even want to be defined by it?

@popcornlover ‘they’ seems to be most commonly used by those who define themselves as ‘non binary’ so it’s neither

It all felt a bit silly. Why go to all the trouble of changing to the opposite gender, to then not even want to be defined by it?

I use a shortening of my name which is unisex . The idea anyone thinks I care if they mistakenly assume im a bloke us bizarre. Its happened loads. I dont even think about it. Its along the lines of buying things. Shop assistants don't care. They don't care if its a mens razor or a pregnancy test ir tampons. It realky doesn't matter to them or anyone else in the queue.

I do worry about the fragility of people and whether its really a kind thing to do to indulge such...well paranoia and self obsessive behaviour really. Jobs often rely on teamwork. If one member of that team is demanding or needy it makes it difficult for everyone else.

@BuffaloCauliflower, it’s just they had surgery to change to the opposite. Then at some point no longer wanted to be defined by the new gender, and preferred “they”. I would say whatever makes them happy, but without revealing too much, it didn’t make them happy.

@Whatwouldscullydo
I worry about the same.

[quote BuffaloCauliflower]@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g I’m pretty well informed about the GDPR for my job, and yes - you need a really good reason to keep this kind of personal data on people (anything related to sex, gender identity and sexuality would fall under ‘special category data’) and it has to be a reason that benefits THEM, the respondent, in some way, not whoever is collecting the data.

As @StealthPolarBear has highlighted, they need to be clear what this data will be used for, how it will be stored and who will have access to it, particularly as it will be attached to names and other personal information meaning people will be identifiable. You don’t need to comply[/quote]
This is all very pertinent, I'd say. It's information they really don't need to know - especially for a bloody zoom meeting. Just demonstrative nonsense.

I'm sure Hillary Benn would love to be told to change his name
Want to tell him to masculinise his name?
[email protected]

As it happens if people dont know they often thinks hes a woman. I've definitely more than once been told he is a she with a name like that.

My name is
My department is

Then just sit there. The person will move on.

I must be very thick
when I run Zoom sessions I ask people to screen name themselves with first name and job title
so that anybody can see
"Jill, Marketing manager" or "Peter, Maintenance lead" when they speak
saves introduction, and saves trying to remember

Just out of interest OP, I don’t have an office or co-workers as such, so I feel a bit ‘out of the loop’ with things like this - were there many who used pronouns you wouldn’t have normally used? As in where there many non-binary who wanted they/them or people who ‘looked’ like women wanting to be called he/him and vice versa?
This is just me - but in my real life I have one distant cousin who is trans but other than that I know no-one at all that uses different pronouns than the ‘traditional’ ones you’d expect.

Thanks, @BuffaloCauliflower, I thought that might be the case.

There's such a lot of woolly thinking around this issue. Nobody would ask meeting attendees to announce their marital status, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or age, or give details of their medical history as part of an introduction. Why, therefore, is it relevant to ask them to state either their sex or gender identity?

Nobody would ask meeting attendees to announce their marital status, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or age, or give details of their medical history as part of an introduction. Why, therefore, is it relevant to ask them to state either their sex or gender identity?
THIS
with bells on

@ListeningQuietly

Nobody would ask meeting attendees to announce their marital status, ethnicity, religion, sexuality or age, or give details of their medical history as part of an introduction. Why, therefore, is it relevant to ask them to state either their sex or gender identity? THIS with bells on

Totally. Smacks of someone who is a self centred attention seeking twat. They want it all to be about them and people to see how brave and wonderful they are. Fucking twats. Nobody fucking cares.

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g completely agree, and astounds me this isn’t highlighted more.

@CandleWick4

Just out of interest OP, I don’t have an office or co-workers as such, so I feel a bit ‘out of the loop’ with things like this - were there many who used pronouns you wouldn’t have normally used? As in where there many non-binary who wanted they/them or people who ‘looked’ like women wanting to be called he/him and vice versa? This is just me - but in my real life I have one distant cousin who is trans but other than that I know no-one at all that uses different pronouns than the ‘traditional’ ones you’d expect.

@CandleWick4 no, this is the first time I’ve ever come across this!

women's pronouns are sex based like their oppression.

I'd love to sign off my emails with "my pronouns are sex based, like my oppression", if I was ever forced to have it as my email signature.

women's pronouns are sex based like their oppressioN

I also like

“i don’t identify in to my own oppression”

Ooh yes pinching those.

I may get a badge made that says pronoun free.

I would say my pronouns are “XX” and that’s how I identify my pronouns. I noticed recently some TRA rallying against chromosomes. Very strange how they disregard one lot of identifying factors (chromosomes) but yet insist we identify ourselves with misdirected words such as “they” or “cis woman” (bleurgh). In their logic, I can make my own pronouns up and mine is XX, as that is more science based, which they hate.

Why go to all the trouble of changing to the opposite gender, to then not even want to be defined by it?

I'm probably missing something, but I personally can never understand transmen who then go on to deliberately get pregnant. If you feel so strongly that you identify as male, I would have thought that the idea of doing the most specifically female thing possible would be completely alien to you, as well as making it look to the outside world that, despite all of your assertions to the contrary, you aren't all that serious about identifying as a man. There was that documentary about the trans Guardian journalist who went through the courts fighting for the right to be named on the birth certificate of the child that he'd given birth to as 'father', but obviously nobody else fitted the role of 'mother' and a BC legally has to give the name of the mother (seems a bit pointless having one in the first place if it doesn't, imho).

I noticed recently some TRA rallying against chromosomes.

That is crazy - just makes me think of Alan Partridge exclaiming "Lynn, you're shouting at weather!"

@Gurufloof

I'm sure Hillary Benn would love to be told to change his name Want to tell him to masculinise his name? [email protected]

As it happens if people dont know they often thinks hes a woman. I've definitely more than once been told he is a she with a name like that.

Hilary was originally a male name.

Hilary was originally a male name.

So was Evelyn - or at least it was unisex. Evelyn Waugh's wife was also called Evelyn, so their friends and family called them He-velyn and She-velyn to distinguish them and make it clear which one they were talking about. If all of this modern choose-your-own-pronoun thing had been around then, he would have been known as They-velyn, she would have been known as They-velyn and, if talking about both of them together, you would just have used They-velyn - not confusing in the least....

XX as a 'pronoun' is a stroke of genius. I'm not going to wittingly/willingly poke a gigantic needle into a very angry, buzzing hornets' nest, but in the event of this shizzle ever becoming mandatory it's sorely tempting. (How about the crowning touch of a Venus symbol structured around both Xs)?

Failing that, my pronouns are me/mine and the usual form of address is 'you'. (I honestly think I prefer 'comrade' - you can see where this is heading!)

I love that anecdote about the Waughs. Apparently they were going through divorce when he wrote Vile Bodies, which is why that novel becomes increasingly more bitter and cynical as the text progresses. It's and also conceivably why he changed to that title from Bright Young Things.

I can see his point ...

I'd love to see what Evelyn Waugh would have made of gender ideology.

If Bertrand Russell were still here, she'd be pointing out that male names quite often move across to be used as female names, and when that happens they rapidly cease to be used as male names altogether. Happening right now to Aubrey. From birth onwards, males can't be tainted by being misidentified as female.

You never, ever see a traditionally female name moving across to become a boys' name. I'm not even sure a traditionally female name could become unisex to any great extent. nameberry.com/blog/unisex-baby-names-names-that-morphed-from-blue-to-pink

@FairFridaythe13th

Diversity? Great.

Just keep asking how they ensure they give people with disabilities a fair crack. Will they make sure that screens are available for the visually impaired? That loos are wheelchair accessible? Has proper training been carried out to ensure that in the event of an evacuation, those with mobility issues aren’t left to burn? Is the canteen allergy friendly and who are the first aides (can they administer an epipen? Can anyone use BSL? How can they make sure that all workers and visitors are considered?

Then there’s the whole thorny issue of religion on the workplace - prayers, religious days off, interactions with other religions/sexual etc... but I suspect the whole think will be a lot one issue and one issue of.

Chuck in 'have the offices been designed in a way that enables easy movement for people without catching a stick/crutch on furniture/cables or having to squeeze between the photocopier, a bookcase and a filing cabinet to get to a desk?'. 'Is there a member of staff tasked with loading the photocopier or fetching the paper so that disabled people are not forced to ask for help or have to struggle with doing it themselves?'.

Is the room for the diversity training set up in a way that blocks the path for a disabled person? Has the trainer put things on the floor in a place where a disabled person trying to get to their seat/the coffee making facilities/the exit has their way impeded?

Are all heavy items (boxes of paper, for example) raised above floor level? Does every employee have a workstation assessment, an appropriate chair and their screen raised to eye level without having to publicly out themselves as disabled by asking for such?

Look at the fonts used in handouts. Is there a readable paper copy of the presentation, rather than a shit half page size black and white printout of slides with no real information on them?

Are all the surfaces completely level to access both the building and all parts of the office? Is it well lit with non flickering lights and access to daylight? Is there the possibility of selecting your own light levels?

Are disabled people solely represented by a picture of an attractive, smiling, slim, young white woman in a wheelchair and an old man with a walking stick?

Has the trainer asked if there are any particular adaptations or adjustments needed by attendees in advance? How does asking this make somebody feel, as though they're having to demand special treatment? Shouldn't it all be availiabe to everybody in the first place to stop them needing to ask?

Are you allowed to strictly reject the use of all third-person pronouns in reference to yourself - denounce their use as hate speech - and then legally change your name to something very long?

"I was in a meeting with Annunciata-Immaculada yesterday and Annunciata-Immaculada said that Annunciata-Immaculada had been working on Annunciata-Immaculada's new project along with a few of Annunciata-Immaculada's colleagues. Annunciata-Immaculada explained to me that, in Annunciata-Immaculada's experience, Annunciata-Immaculada had noticed a clear trend for Annunciata-Immaculada's clients to tell Annunciata-Immaculada that they valued Annunciata-Immaculada's involvement in directly applying Annunciata-Immaculada's skills to help them resolve the specific issues that Annunciata-Immaculada had been tasked to work with them on. Annunciata-Immaculada was very proud to inform me that 98% of Annunciata-Immaculada's clients gave Annunciata-Immaculada a 5-star rating when Annunciata-Immaculada asked if they would kindly review Annunciata-Immaculada's services.

Much more simple and straightforward....