SANDS sorry if upsetting

[InTheShadowOfTheMushroomCloud]

I have no words. This has upset me so much...

The aim isn’t to include, its to distance.

Yes.

And it isn't about transmen, either.

I don't give a shit what terminology they use, they are an amazing organisation and if you are ever in need of their support, then believe me you will have more on your mind that fucking words they use

I hope the tweet stands. If it goes people will lie even more about what the responses said.

All across twitter, people are accusing bereaved mothers of abusing Freddie as it is.

It is actually really sad - but you should see the abuse JK Rowling got in twitter because she objected to an article much like this one. I mean truly horrific abuse. It is very upsetting. It is so easy to be inclusive without disregarding 'mother' x

@fudgecat

I don't give a shit what terminology they use, they are an amazing organisation and if you are ever in need of their support, then believe me you will have more on your mind that fucking words they use

But women who have needed their support are upset. Perhaps uou should read the thread first?

@fudgecat

I don't give a shit what terminology they use, they are an amazing organisation and if you are ever in need of their support, then believe me you will have more on your mind that fucking words they use

I used them and the word 'mother' was very important to me - not least because I had good reason to think that that would be the only chance I had to be a mother and with my child gone 'mother' was my only link with them. I would have been devastated to have been referred to in such impersonal terms as 'birthing parent'. My child was prem - the birth killed them. To call ne tge birthing parent would be akin to saying I kilked them.

Just to reinterate - where a baby died due to premature birth calling the mother the 'birthing parent' is to tell the mother she is the one responsible for her baby's death.

@fudgecat

I don't give a shit what terminology they use, they are an amazing organisation and if you are ever in need of their support, then believe me you will have more on your mind that fucking words they use

Most people on the Twitter thread have been in precisely that situation.

I’m sure the Sands people on the ground doing the actual work the charity does are wonderful and do an amazing job. And I’m absolutely certain none of them would ever do anything as cold, callous and dehumanising as referring to a newly bereaved mother as being the dead child’s “birthing parent”.

But sadly those good people are being represented by some very different people, more concerned with scoring woke points than with supporting the people the charity is actually for. And it needs calling out, because it undermines all the good stuff the charity does.

Sands have helped me, hence why I donate money to them, I would feel very marginalised by the term birthing parent and would wonder if it applied to me.

Awning, they've been asked -
the CEO tweeted, but buried in the replies.
twitter.com/CHarmerSands/status/1320259709929226240?s=20

I'm sure they won't discuss it though. I think it's likely the approach comes from the outside organizations.

So why couldn't they just post that? "Sands is here for mothers, fathers and all those affected by the loss of a baby".

@Aesopfable

Just to reinterate - where a baby died due to premature birth calling the mother the 'birthing parent' is to tell the mother she is the one responsible for her baby's death.

The same could also be said for any mother whose child died during birth or as a result of complications of giving birth.

We often look to place blame and when the death is a result of 'birthing' then being called the 'birthing parent' neatly places that blame.

Jesus, some of the tweets. Just when you start thinking it's impossible to see them them sink any lower, they go and prove you wrong. Bullying women for being upset over the loss of their babies and feeling excluded by this. Everyone's feelings are valid unless it's a woman. This is why I won't be fucking kind.

As for Freddy... Freddy was blessed enough to give birth to a healthy baby. Words mattered enough to Freddy for Freddy to go to court to try and get the word mother changed to father legally. Yet Freddy is now being a smug fucking twat telling bereaved mothers, who Freddy calls bullies and transphobes (please don't ever forget this), they have no right to want to be referred to as mothers because a term that makes us sound like fucking breeding cattle covers it nicely.

Internalised misogyny isn't fucking cute Freddy, fuck you. It's not our fault the court rejected your ridiculous idea.

Aesopfable I just want to say thanks for explaining that. It is awful you've been made to feel to blame for the birth of your child happening when it did. I am so sorry about your baby.

Words mattered enough to Freddy for Freddy to go to court to try and get the word mother changed to father legally.

Well exactly. Either words matter or they don't.

If they do matter then Freddy must understand why women are upset that the word 'mother' was not in that tweet.

If they don't matter, then why did Freddy go to court to try and be legally recognised as a 'father'?

Or does it only go one way?

@yourhairiswinterfire

Jesus, some of the tweets. Just when you start thinking it's impossible to see them them sink any lower, they go and prove you wrong. Bullying women for being upset over the loss of their babies and feeling excluded by this. Everyone's feelings are valid unless it's a woman. This is why I won't be fucking kind.

As for Freddy... Freddy was blessed enough to give birth to a healthy baby. Words mattered enough to Freddy for Freddy to go to court to try and get the word mother changed to father legally. Yet Freddy is now being a smug fucking twat telling bereaved mothers, who Freddy calls bullies and transphobes (please don't ever forget this), they have no right to want to be referred to as mothers because a term that makes us sound like fucking breeding cattle covers it nicely.

Internalised misogyny isn't fucking cute Freddy, fuck you. It's not our fault the court rejected your ridiculous idea.

Please can I be your best mate? I agree with EVERY WORD.

The self-obsession is off the scale.

@yourhairiswinterfire

Jesus, some of the tweets. Just when you start thinking it's impossible to see them them sink any lower, they go and prove you wrong. Bullying women for being upset over the loss of their babies and feeling excluded by this. Everyone's feelings are valid unless it's a woman. This is why I won't be fucking kind.

As for Freddy... Freddy was blessed enough to give birth to a healthy baby. Words mattered enough to Freddy for Freddy to go to court to try and get the word mother changed to father legally. Yet Freddy is now being a smug fucking twat telling bereaved mothers, who Freddy calls bullies and transphobes (please don't ever forget this), they have no right to want to be referred to as mothers because a term that makes us sound like fucking breeding cattle covers it nicely.

Internalised misogyny isn't fucking cute Freddy, fuck you. It's not our fault the court rejected your ridiculous idea.

👏👏👏

I'm so sorry Aesopfable I'm really rubbish at words of comfort, but I wanted to acknowledge your post. I wish I could come and give you hug. (Hope that doesn't sound patronising.)

Sands is a charity very familiar to me, after my son was stillborn 9 years ago it was the amazing local volunteers who helped me.

Some context to the tweet, if useful. Baby Loss Awareness Week (BLAW) runs 9-15 October every year. The theme this year was isolation, particularly in context of Covid-19. For the first time this year there was a series of online talks sponsored by NatWest. The talks included bereavement support in the workplace, support for partners and wider family, and a talk on trans parents, male couples and surrogates. Since this tweet was from 10 October it was part of the BLAW campaign.

I think it's been potentially useful to show more people the consequences of this under-hand movement to redefine the meanings of words or use alternatives that are so offensive. And I cannot believe the gall of some people insisting we have to describe them using the words they choose (or its literal hurt) but will not allow grieving mothers to choose how to describe themselves. More sunlight...

I'm going to wait and see what Clea and Sands say next, it's not the first time I've been disillusioned with the paid employees compared with the hundreds of volunteers.

Aesop You have explained very clearly something that you shouldn’t have to explain.

Doesn't offend me at all and I've lost 2 babies.

I do believe I would probably not be here without sands unbelievable support.

They are an amazing charity.

They are avoiding the word mother to not upset lesbian couples as in that case they are both mothers. We are told to do this in the birthing education field too but I only use this language when I have a lesbian couple in the group

That’s a good area of language to be mindful of. But couldn’t people use ‘birthing mother’, ‘the mum who’s carrying the baby’, ‘the mum who is pregnant‘ or similar to distinguish between the two mums? It doesn’t seem to do the job of being inclusive to have ‘mums’ without a female partner and then to put lesbian mothers into a subset of non-mums, when they are both mums^?