SANDS sorry if upsetting

[InTheShadowOfTheMushroomCloud]

I have no words. This has upset me so much...

Sexnotgender
ArabellaScott
merrymouse

Sorry for not making it clearer... it was a horrible quote from Twitter. Definitely not my words. I should have put it in quotation marks.

@Awning10

Sexnotgender ArabellaScott merrymouse

Sorry for not making it clearer... it was a horrible quote from Twitter. Definitely not my words. I should have put it in quotation marks.

Crap! Apologies for calling you a monster

Melrose exactly. It is. The mother whose life would have changed most by the arrival of the baby. It ignores the physicality of being a mother before and after birth; the changes to your body, hyperemesis, pelvic girdle pain, gestational diabetes, weight gain, feeling the baby kicking (and monitoring this), the lack of sleep, back problems, the Caesarian scar, the birth injuries, Episiotomy, stitches, engorgement of breasts, contraction of the uterus, lochia, pelvic organ prolapse... all things that only happen to the mother. By ignoring this you are removing support - support that other mothers get at antenatal groups and mother and baby groups or from the health visitor. Who do you talk to about breasts still leaking milk weeks later? Who do you share your stories of baby-weight loss with? Who do your share notes with concerning you birth injuries to determine if you should worry?

💐 to all who have lost their babies.

The erasure of the word mother is just more bullying from the men who have jumped on the trans train. However, they come for mothers at their peril - Mumsnet has stood firm and now SANDS has apologised.

For the trans people out there that are watching despairingly from the sidelines, we will always support people who have no voice, are marginalised and ignored - after all we have been doing this since time immemorial , which is why we are good at it. Please distance yourselves from the bullies who want to erase us, and stand beside us, and we will stand beside you.

Sexnotgender
No worries. It's been taken down now. I am definitely not a monster.

@chilling19

💐 to all who have lost their babies.

The erasure of the word mother is just more bullying from the men who have jumped on the trans train. However, they come for mothers at their peril - Mumsnet has stood firm and now SANDS has apologised.

For the trans people out there that are watching despairingly from the sidelines, we will always support people who have no voice, are marginalised and ignored - after all we have been doing this since time immemorial , which is why we are good at it. Please distance yourselves from the bullies who want to erase us, and stand beside us, and we will stand beside you.

I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused except to say please understand this is primarily about using language to support lesbians and secondarily to support trans men. It has nothing at all to do with trans women and it's really not fair to blame everything you don't like on some sinister trans plot. It was one tweet, using inclusive language, presumably to support grieving LGBT parents, the word mother is mentioned hundreds of times on the Sands website: www.sands.org.uk/search?s=mother

"I'm not going to get involved except to tell you xyz" is an odd way of "not getting involved" jj.

But from seeing you on other threads I suppose it was only a matter of time before you came here to tell off the bereaved mums and women too.

@Sexnotgender

I see Freddy McConnell has weighed in.

Still salty about not being called father on the birth certificate I see.

I saw this. I think he has a bit of a nerve. The fact he went to court for the right to be listed as “father” shows that he acknowledges language used is important. It clearly matters a lot to him. Unfortunately it seems that the importance of language only applies to him, and women trying to make a point about the importance of language to them are bigots.

What a tangly mess
Why didnt they just say, "one parent sometimes feels left out and isolated" - all this birthing and non-birthing crap just makes it unreadable.

Unfortunately it seems that the importance of language only applies to him, and women trying to make a point about the importance of language to them are bigots.

That’s exactly the issue. It’s only ever about them and when women object we’re “bigots” or “transphobic”.

Language is important to them but we’re not allowed to consider it important to us.

jj, the first page of your link makes it rather clear that they quote others using the word mother while generally not using it themselves. Which was rather my point.

Pages they have written themselves (as opposed to quotations from other sources, and "true life stories") tend to steer clear of "mother", "women" and "woman".

Attempting to exclude bereaved mothers from their own grief is quite possibly the shittiest trick I have ever seen in the entire history of shit.
to you all.

jj
I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused except to say please understand this is primarily about using language to support lesbians and secondarily to support trans men.

If it was anything to do with supporting lesbians why would they not use the word mother?? You get double mother with a lesbian couple - why is either woman going to want to avoid that word??

What’s wrong with women and .....

^I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused except to say please understand this is primarily about using language to support lesbians and secondarily to support trans men. It has nothing at all to do with trans women and it's really not fair to blame everything you don't like on some sinister trans plot. It was one tweet, using inclusive language, presumably to support grieving LGBT parents, the word mother is mentioned hundreds of times on the Sands website:www.sands.org.uk/search?s=mother^

Bollocks.

I don't know any lesbian mothers who would want to be referred to as the "birthing parent". There may be some who would prefer "birthing parent", but all the ones I know would be just as upset to be addressed this way as any heterosexual mother.

I think their opinions count, don't you?

The language was to be inclusive of people like Freddie and transwomen. In the attempt to be inclusive of them, it was cruel to the women Sands was founded to support.

Bereaved mothers have spoken very movingly on MN before on what it is like to suffer infant loss, and how society at large does not see you as a mother if they didn't see you in the role of mother. Women's grief goes unacknowledged..

Sands is one of the organisations that should know and understand this better than anyone else and should never risk perpetuating it. That tweet was a kick in the teeth.

Don't use lesbians as a figleaf for it.

As PP have said many times, some things ARE exclusive! Being a mother is something that is limited to women however they identify. I work in a very woke sector & one of the problems with the rush to make everything ‘inclusive’ is that the very people something was designed for end up being excluded in the rush to include everyone

I'm not going to get involved with this thread as I understand the upset this has caused

Cheery bye then.

There have been tentative flirtations with this blurring of language for some time.

I’ve supported sands since the stillbirth of my son over a decade ago. I give quite a significant amount every month. I will stop. If that is the only way I will be listened too.

I understand the upset this has caused to me

Fixed it for you jj. You're welcome.

I’m a lurker here, but feel moved to compelled to speak up on this.

My child died.

Seeing SANDS dragged out and accused of all sorts for this is horrible.

They are a major source of meaningful support for parents going through a truly terrible life changing experience.

They have apologised, and said the word mother should have been there.

Time to let them get back to doing what they do best, for all parents and families who lose a baby.

Think about the people who are searching today for SANDS because it’s happening to them today. Let SANDS spend their energy helping them, not dealing with an inbox and Twitter full of complaints from people objecting about this when they’ve already said sorry.

Like some other other bereaved parents here in this thread, the absence of the word mother on one tweet, to me, does not even twitch the needle when I think of SANDS. Their place in my life and my family’s life, is enormous and significant in surviving a major traumatic loss.

I’m actually quite affronted to see this happening. It feels like they are being unfairly used and attacked as a point scoring thing.

One of their great strengths is that they are there for parents and families, not only mothers.

Using that as a stick to beat them with, and to make a big noise about charities being influenced by activists, and claim they are are being bullied is so wide of the mark.

I don’t know, this has made me feel really uncomfortable.

Not every case of inclusive language is a calculated move to appease trans people or an attempt to erase women.

I didn't take it that way at all. They could be talking to families with two mothers (so inappropriate to refer to 'the mother' as it implies only one is present), intended parents in a surrogacy arrangement etc.

It is not inclusive language - it excludes women who in desperate situations find solace in being a mother.

Language matters.

I am quite sure that the people working on the ground in SANDS are very committed and doing a good job.

This comes from above from the corporate charity sector, the sharing of 'good practice' amongst executives that are not grounded in the charity they work for.

For example there is someone who has moved to an influential position in SANDS via the ramblers, the NSPCC, Girl Guiding and Leonard Cheshire. So their expertise is in "running a charity" and their interests are in transferable skills.

I would hate to see charities crumble underneath all of this.

As someone pointed out upthread, there is trouble at the National Trust following a less subtle change in direction - and there are a lot of powerful interested parties who are connected with its original setting up, so one to watch. But this is happening all over.

*Justamotherone
*
Am so sorry for your loss. I know how hard that is.

I understand your reasoning behind ppl searching for support and reading these threads. But Women NEED to read these threads to understand that their grief as mothers DOES matter.
We aren't birthing parents. We are women.