We are now non trans women.....

[InTheShadowOfTheMushroomCloud]

According the lovely Mr T

@MiladyRenata

We think like women We feel like women We act like women We dress like women

Our biology is "wrong", but we had no say in that. So why exclude us?

Do please educate us on what definitive evidence you are basing that on, we are all desperate to know the definitions of :

Woman thinking
Woman feeling
Woman acting
Woman dressing

If TWAW and women are non trans women doesn't that make trans women not women 🤔 going by that logic

@MiladyRenata

We think like women We feel like women We act like women We dress like women

Our biology is "wrong", but we had no say in that. So why exclude us?

An awful lot of women, I'd go so far as to say the majority of women think that people born male are not women.

So on that basis, if you think and feel like a woman, you'll presumably agree that you're not a woman?

@MiladyRenata

We think like women We feel like women We act like women We dress like women

Our biology is "wrong", but we had no say in that. So why exclude us?

So you're reducing all women to one way of thinking, one way of feeling, one way of acting, one way of dressing?

In what way is your thinking like a woman? How do you know how women think and feel? I don't know how women think and feel and I was born a woman. I dress in clothes from the men's section sometimes. That doesn't make me any less of a woman than my friend who wears dresses all the time. How do women act? All women act the same?

You offend me, and probably many other women by claiming you are a woman just because of the way you feel, act, dress. Your personality is you. There is no wrong biology.

Womanface is offensive. Stop appropriating women.

@titchy

I think like an Olympic high jumper I act like an Olympic high jumper I dress like an Olympic high jumper I feel like an Olympic high jumper

My biology is wrong (I'm 5' tall) but I had no say in that so why exclude me.

You and me both.

I could have been a champion long jumper, were it not for total lack of fast-twitch muscles, a top sprinting speed of a gentle jog and being a midget.

Last time I tried I don't think I cleared a metre, and I pulled my groin in the attempt.

Damn that pesky biology.

I happen to be my personality in a woman's body
how I act and feel has usually nothing to do with my biology unless it's that time of the month were my biology reminds me that it exists. Or other only female biological experiences : menopause childbirth, pcos, endometriosis...

I certainly do not assume that I know what other women feel just because they are women too. Every woman is an individual.

I only exist in this biological body because I wouldn't be me if I didn't
I'd have been a different sperm n egg combination.
The fact that I exist is a 1egg v 40mil+ sperm odds.
My body couldn't be wrong because I'm lucky to exist and I'll never exist again.

So you're reducing all women to one way of thinking, one way of feeling, one way of acting, one way of dressing?

It's bizarre isn't it? @MiladyRenata clearly doesn't think like the overwhelming majority of women on this board so where does that leave their assertion? I know logic and fact was never a strong point in this but this level of illogicality and nonsense plumbs new depths.

I have to say, if I posted a comment which loads of women wanted explanation of, I would probably give an explanation.

It strikes me that most women are socialised this way, encouraged to enter into a dialogue with others.

It seems much more male socialisation to plop a controversial comment in a thread and then bugger off as though it was a definitive final word.

Very well put Meknow

One of today's jobs is to get MY toolbox out and replace a couple of door handles, Am I a man?

I see you doorhandles and raise you an entire shed, Diane. Mind you it's a multi day project and it looks like I won't be starting today as phase 1 involves drilling into the concrete slabs in the yard and it's piss wet and horrible out there.

Mind you, I know it is possible to do these things in a ladylike manner because Alex Drummond told me so in one of Alex's videos. (I think it may have been the one which drove Magdalen to say "Fuck off you wankers.")

Our biology is "wrong", but we had no say in that

Oh me too.

I had no say in being stuck in a disabled body, and no amount of identifying helps with the practical reality that it is disabled, and I have to live around that every minute of every day with all the limitations and gaping chasm between what my head would like to do with my life (or today, or this hour) and what the reality of my body will actually permit. Reality is an utter swine.

Given the choice, I'd also have liked a say as to whether I got the biology that permitted me to lay down reality and naming and law to other people, and to get what I wanted and be listened to. Unfortunately I got stuck with the biology that goes with Assigned Support Human At Birth, and get stuck with people with the other kind of biology constantly and bossily trying to tell me who I am, what I am, what I can do, what bits of reality I may believe, what language I must adopt and use, and for some reason expecting me to enable them in this.

I am behaving like the stereotypical male today doing absolutely heehaw does that make me a man?

"We think like women
We feel like women
We act like women
We dress like women"

No one believes this, not even Renata.

Renata disagrees with every single woman they have spoken to on here. Patently obvious that they don't think any of us.

It's just a wind up.

*think like any of us.

(Strewth, what is wrong with me today)

I do not understand what it means to think like a woman.

I do not understand what it means to feel like a woman (in a way that doesn't involve my female biology, which can't be what you mean).

I do not understand what it means to act like a woman (other than what was expected of me in order to be 'ladylike', which can't be what you mean).

I do not understand what it means to dress like a woman (other than stereotypes, which can't be what you mean).

So help me out, what do you mean by these things? As you think like a woman, I'm sure you will be able to explain it in a way my womanly brain can handle.

@334bu

I am behaving like the stereotypical male today doing absolutely heehaw does that make me a man?

@MiladyRenata

We think like women We feel like women We act like women We dress like women

Our biology is "wrong", but we had no say in that. So why exclude us?

Women are not one homogeneous group who all act, think, feel and dress the same.

I hate this argument so much because It totally stereotypes women into artificially constructed gender boxes.

I’m a woman and I’m an individual. I feel like me, I think like me. I have no idea how the woman next to me thinks or feels. I act as an individual.

How do you think women act? Do you think we giggle a lot and toss our hair and squeal if we see a spider? Because I don’t.

Dress like a woman? Why can’t a man wear a dress if he chooses? As a woman I don’t often wear a dress. I wear trousers. Does that mean I don’t dress like a woman? I don’t think it does.....seeing as I am a woman.

If you think only women can wear dresses do you also think only girls can do dancing, play with dolls, etc? Does that mean you also think only boys can play football or race motorbikes?

This is why I don’t like these sort of arguments. Women have spent decades fighting these restrictive stereotypes.

@334bu

I am behaving like the stereotypical male today doing absolutely heehaw does that make me a man?

Only if you're also pausing from time to time to manspread on the sofa, adjust your genitals and occasionally scratch your bawsack.

I think like a Supermodel.
I walk like a supermodel.
I swish my hair like a supermodel.
I pose like a supermodel.

Some say I am not a supermodel because I am short, fat, old and am a blessed with a face like a crumpled paper bag.

Just because I feel like a supermodel doesn’t mean I can be one.

Biology is against me.

Enlighten me on how just ‘feeling’ like a supermodel will get me on the cover of vogue please or allow me to be the muse of a famous designer?

There is the paraphrased comment of Steven Levine's in his affidavit, based on extensive work with TW, that TW believed they felt the way that they perceived women might feel based on their perceived stereotypes of how women thought. And they dressed and liked things in the way they perceived women to dress and like based on their perceived stereotypes of women.

In much the same way that I cannot feel like a TW - I can imagine based on the limited knowledge I have, from what I hear TW say and explain, I can imagine, but how on earth can I know what it is to have a male body and those feelings? As a female I can't experience that, and obviously it's appropriative, and offensive and belittling to the reality of TW if I try and claim that I can.

So why cannot the same respect and sensitivity be extended in both directions?

I feel like a woman
when I'm passing a bloody clot
when I'm doubled over in pain from the cramp
when I'm mid cycle and I have stabbing pain in my side waiting for my ovary to pop.
When I've flooded unexpectedly from perimenopause symptoms
When the kids walk past OH to specifically ask me what's for dinner
When I'm scrubbing all the bathrooms every single week
When I'm expected to remember to remind other adults in house to buy milk
When I'm the only one who remembers relatives birthdays
When I'm lying awake at night wondering if the school uniforms will be dry in the morning
I could go on the list is endless of all the times I feel like a woman

Tatchell is a nasty evil toad. He's in favour of child sexual abuse and he is involved in Sex-Ed in schools. This is all well documented.

There is the paraphrased comment of Steven Levine's in his affidavit, based on extensive work with TW, that TW believed they felt the way that they perceived women might feel based on their perceived stereotypes of how women thought. And they dressed and liked things in the way they perceived women to dress and like based on their perceived stereotypes of women.

Absolutely. And it's pretty obvious to most women.

Because a) there is no way of being able to feel like the opposite sex, given that you don't have a single criteria in order to experience it.

And B) the roles that are taken on, post transition, are superficial and not reflective of the experience of women. See Debbie Hayton suddenly wanting to do baking, but not the more difficult roles that Stephanie was still doing.

Renata, for instance, claims they think like a woman despite readily disagreeing over the thought process of every single woman here!

It's perfectly clear that Renata sincerely wishes the woman were thinking in the way Renata wants them to think, so renata can claim kinship. Unfortunately, that comes from a place of sexism, which is imposed upon women. It should come as a shock to find out that it's not innate. But I don't think it registers tbh.