URGENT ACTION TONIGHT: SEX BASED RIGHTS

[MForstater]

Fawcett Society and Stella Creasy (I know, I know) have a ten minute rule bill tomorrow on equal pay.

It is about sex based rights but they are not shouting about that

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1318269397987971072?s=19

You can edit the letter to make that point clearer ... It's sex not gender!

My version

docs.google.com/document/d/10l7cD-BHjlths6OySRy-nq8NlsWeBF3a637dNAP_Fc8/edit?usp=drivesdk

Would you do this tonight and share on social media etc ...

@DeliciouslyFemale

So, back to the topic at hand...

You’re right of course. I should know better than to continue feeding them, Thanks for the links.

Its like eating a family size bar of chocolate - it seems like the right thing to do at the time but then you feel a bit ick a while later

Do you really want to live in a chromosomally determined caste system?

Oh sweetie 😂

Hi @MForstater (or anyone) can I ask, in the bold at the end where it says:
Worse still, many employers have also stopped monitoring and recording the sex of their employees, and instead record "gender identity". This is not a protected characteristic. if there’s a specific reason you haven’t mentioned men identifying as women too (which would surely also narrow the gap on paper without women getting paid more)? Thanks

And stop patronising me hmm you're not superior just because you're (probably) older than me

top FWR night

In fact you would see us as allies because we are breaking down the idea of a gender binary determined by one's biology.

Au contraire trans and non-binary require enforcement of gender biology in order to have something to move away from. If you acknowledged that people did not follow sex stereotypes then nonbinary would be seen to be nothing different from everybody. There would be no special status to lay claim to.

But none of this would affect sex difference; reproductive roles and physiology. Women are still the only ones who get pregnant and have the biology associated with this.

*gender binary

So true Pertella. I think I need to go on a diet.

Done, thank you.

My MP is lib dem, so, you know

Thanks for all you are doing, Maya.

[quote jennie0412]@DeliciouslyFemale well go on, I'd love to hear how I'm a misogynistic ageist? if you're going to call me that, may as well prove your point, hmm?[/quote]
I'll spell it out for you since you're clearly struggling.

You've equated defining women by their biology as anti-trans - when in fact this is a protected characteristic under the equalities act= misogynistic.

You've made a broad assumption that another poster is older than you and demanding respect based on your assumption of age= ageist

And you've accused another poster if mental health issues using slurs = disablist

Hope that's clear since you clearly lack any powers of self reflection when it comes to your own bigotry

but jennie told the trans person on this thread that they were wrong about gender, so I'm not sure jennie disagrees with that

In fact you would see us as allies because we are breaking down the idea of a gender binary determined by one's biology.

How are you actually doing that?

By diluting our employment protections? By ensuring that females how ever they identify are being well represented by other females who actually understand why we need our own rights and who will work to protect these? This means leaving women’s short lists to the people they were created to advance and protect. All people deserve representation, so work toward creating your very own shortlists proportionate to the % of population. Stop using male privilege to take female representation roles.

How about simply acknowledging that women still do need special protections based on their biology. That would be good for a start. You seem very intent in diminishing these protections by calling for ‘equal’ rights. An ally would have this basic understanding.

In most respects our sex doesn't determine how we live our lives or what sort of person we can be.
But in some respects our sex does have an impact. Only women can get pregnant. That has an impact on how women are treated in the workplace and how much women are paid compared to men.

Beautifully phrased. If we could abolish gender - that bunch of regressive, misogynist social stereotypes - and let everyone express themselves as they choose, while recognising that being a woman or man is about biological sex, not about personality, appearance or personal preference, and that women have certain needs and rights based on our biological sex - like single-sex DV shelters, hospital wards, sports teams and prisons - I’d be happy with that.

334bu
Point of information, this law is not devolved to Hollywood so Scottish Mumsnetters should email too.
I suspect Hollywood might do only a marginally worse job at this point!

Thanks Maya I have emailed my (useless) SNP MP who thinks a hairdo does a woman make

Blessings from the Goddess on those keeping this thread bumped - even if you had to quote your own post to do so

In fact you would see us as allies because we are breaking down the idea of a gender binary determined by one's biology

Saying that whether someone is a man or a woman is defined by anything except their biology is reinforcing the gender binary.

What would help to break it down would be saying ‘Of course dresses and makeup are for men. I’m a man & I wear them.’ The idea that someone’s personality, or how they present, makes them male, female or neither does nothing but reinforce tired old stereotypes.

@ContessaDiPulpo

Do you really want to live in a chromosomally determined caste system? We already do. That's what we're angry about.

🙌🏼

@EyesOpening

Hi *@MForstater* (or anyone) can I ask, in the bold at the end where it says: Worse still, many employers have also stopped monitoring and recording the sex of their employees, and instead record "gender identity". This is not a protected characteristic. if there’s a specific reason you haven’t mentioned men identifying as women too (which would surely also narrow the gap on paper without women getting paid more)? Thanks

Can anyone advise me please?

@RHOBHfan

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Oooh, my first report! 🤣🤣

Ok, try again.

I’m sorry but I can't buy into the idea of treating people differently, and giving some people extra rights, because of their chromosomes.

Out of the mouths of b.....

Wow. The irony...

I will never understand why it is ok for traumatised women to have their well documented, measurable and justifiable sex based needs refused because someone's undefined and internal gender needs trump theirs.

Do you really want to live in a chromosomally determined caste system?

Just bumping with this gem

Talking of "Hollywood" can I just remind people that For Women Scotland are trying to launch a legal challenge to the Scottish Government's redefining the legal meaning of women. If they can't pursue the judicial review this could set precedent for laws elsewhere or at least a way for TRA lobby to pressurise the UK Government , so it's really important. More information here.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4052324-ForwomenScot-have-been-granted-permission-for-a-Judicial-Review-of-the-Gender-Representation-on-Public-Boards-Act-2018

I would like to thank you all for this thread. I hover about the boards and never sure that I could commit myself as GC (but really knew I am). But this thread has just made me smile so much, with the humour but mostly the clear and succinct intelligence of you lot. It’s so clear what the issue is here, and this is a thread which comes across to me as respectful but clear. Sometimes I find the tone on FWR a bit offputting, conditioned not to like anger I guess, but I feel this is a tipping point for me.

Have emailed my MP. Unfortunately that is Margaret Ferrier, so not sure it will be of any use, but still feels like a gesture!

I can't see what all the fuss is about. Gender/sex. Make of it what you will. Chromosomally determined class system. That's a new one.

Thanks Maya, done.

I've now emailed my MP. Thanks for the info, Maya.

Welcome to real feminism Merename. It’s feisty, but by gad you’ll get an education and they are an amazingly supportive bunch of women.