URGENT ACTION TONIGHT: SEX BASED RIGHTS

[MForstater]

Fawcett Society and Stella Creasy (I know, I know) have a ten minute rule bill tomorrow on equal pay.

It is about sex based rights but they are not shouting about that

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1318269397987971072?s=19

You can edit the letter to make that point clearer ... It's sex not gender!

My version

docs.google.com/document/d/10l7cD-BHjlths6OySRy-nq8NlsWeBF3a637dNAP_Fc8/edit?usp=drivesdk

Would you do this tonight and share on social media etc ...

Milady I'd love to see a world in which natal sex doesn't matter, truly. But we have a big hump to get over first - natal women have yet to experience a world in which nearly every expression of their biology is not held against them and actively used to coerce, control, dehumanise and infantilise them.

We have to address that bit first. If we attempt some wand-waving and say 'there, all inequalities are washed away by this brave new gender expression' we are simply baking in the misogyny.

I can see how, in the long run, an open and enthusiastic embrace of gender non-conformity will lead us to a better place. But people with uteruses have to start from an equal place for that to work properly IMO.

For what it's worth I applaud you posting on here and don't think you should be mocked or closed down for daring to speak.

@MForstater

Fawcett Society and Stella Creasy (I know, I know) have a ten minute rule bill tomorrow on equal pay.

It is about sex based rights but they are not shouting about that

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1318269397987971072?s=19

You can edit the letter to make that point clearer ... It's sex not gender!

My version

docs.google.com/document/d/10l7cD-BHjlths6OySRy-nq8NlsWeBF3a637dNAP_Fc8/edit?usp=drivesdk

Would you do this tonight and share on social media etc ...

Just repeating Maya’s OP in case anyone was distracted by Milad & forgot to act.

@MiladyRenata

Well the reproductive role in itself is biology. But pretty much everything else about being a man and being a woman is a social construct. Why must we be a certain way (tough and stoical, or kind and gentle) because of our biology?

All those pesky sex crimes committed by a social construct...

Point of information, this law is not devolved to Hollywood so Scottish Mumsnetters should email too.

@jennie0412

Loving the mocking of trans and nb people in this thread

Where’s that? If you think talking about women’s rights is mocking trans people, then you really mustn’t like women. Shame that, since you came out of one, as did all of us. Do you think you could have been carried by your father, if your mum didn’t want to get pregnant?

I think you can argue that the mindset that leads to rape and sexual assault is a gender expression, Datun? It's not an inevitable result of having a penis.

Holyrood not Hollywood !!!!!!!Stupid spell check

@DeliciouslyFemale I'm a woman, so uh, no, I don't hate women. And stop patronising me you're not superior just because you're (probably) older than me.

@MiladyRenata

With respect, it's not a derail. It's entirely relevant. Either you want to treat people differently based on their chromosomes (the definition of "sex" mooted by some posters here), or you want to judge people on their behaviours and values.

Gender and sex are the same thing and both social constructs. We are all human beings.

Sex and gender are not the same you cannot choose your sex you are what you are gender is a choice

PacificState

The word is woman! Not natal woman, there’s no need for the prefix. Please don’t use the term people with uteruses since many of us have had ours removed, but are still women. A minority of women are born without a uterus, but they still have xx chromosomes and are still women. Please don’t give away the word woman, so easily.

Let's not let another obvious one derail the thread

[quote jennie0412]@DeliciouslyFemale I'm a woman, so uh, no, I don't hate women. And stop patronising me you're not superior just because you're (probably) older than me.[/quote]
Misogynistic AND ageist. Well done.

@DeliciouslyFemale wtaf? How am I either of those things? You're off your head

Done. It’s a five-minute job at the most.

My goodness the determination to derail. Am I the only one that smells panic in the air?

@MForstater

Fawcett Society and Stella Creasy (I know, I know) have a ten minute rule bill tomorrow on equal pay.

It is about sex based rights but they are not shouting about that

twitter.com/MForstater/status/1318269397987971072?s=19

You can edit the letter to make that point clearer ... It's sex not gender!

My version

docs.google.com/document/d/10l7cD-BHjlths6OySRy-nq8NlsWeBF3a637dNAP_Fc8/edit?usp=drivesdk

Would you do this tonight and share on social media etc ...

So, back to the topic at hand...

[quote jennie0412]@DeliciouslyFemale wtaf? How am I either of those things? You're off your head[/quote]
Oh, a wee disablist comment thrown in for good measure. Keep them coming. You’re showing your true colours. Only woke when it comes to a certain section of the community, I see. Same old.

I use the language that I need to use for clarity, and because I think you get better conversations if you're willing to be clear and polite. You don't have to agree with my phrasing but please don't assume that I haven't thought about it.

@DeliciouslyFemale well go on, I'd love to hear how I'm a misogynistic ageist? if you're going to call me that, may as well prove your point, hmm?

Done. Thanks so much for bringing this to our attention Maya.

Weird that some find women protecting their sex-based rights so threatening ...

Oh! Another -ist! Educate me about that too, now that you're here

So, back to the topic at hand...

You’re right of course. I should know better than to continue feeding them, Thanks for the links.

@MiladyRenata

OK, well quoting myself is weird, but:

"Well the reproductive role in itself is biology."

I thought that was reasonably clear. I just don't understand why you feel this determines what kind of person a human being should be and how they should live their lives.

In most respects our sex doesn't determine how we live our lives or what sort of person we can be.

But in some respects our sex does have an impact. Only women can get pregnant. That has an impact on how women are treated in the workplace and how much women are paid compared to men.

Thanks Maya.

And the privilege you have to be carrying (based on chromosomes and socialisation from birth) to be able to hand wave away sex based rights as unnecessary and deny that sex based differences and needs exist....

this is what female people need protections from, demonstrated in a nutshell. Those without female chromosomes who are in the privileged position of being able to be naïve or uninterested in the realities those female people experience, or the issues they are trying to talk about, because it doesn't affect them and doesn't matter to them. So they are able to make it all about 'but get rid of that because it gets in the way of male people being female if they want to'.

While totally ignoring thread after thread full of women trying to explain, absolutely deaf to them and their feelings and their needs and their explained lived experience. But constantly popping up to remind them how they don't matter a jot.

Thanks Maya, I'm on it. Sex based rights are needed by female people. I would LOVE to have been chromosomally gifted from birth with the freedom to not have to worry about this shit because it just doesn't affect me. But I still would have done, because I have the capacity to notice and care about other people.

@OldCrone absolutely agreed.