Some questions for the socialist/left feminists here

[BlackWaveComing]

It's a free world, apparently, but this isn't a thread seeking input from conservative or right wing GC's. So

Otoh, if you are a feminist whose feminism encompasses but is not confined to GC in the context of transgender issues, and you have a socialist or left political alignment, I'd like your input. I suppose it's an AIBU for you. ( For context, I appreciate the role of social conservatism as a balancing force, and have defended FWR from accusations of transphobia on many occasions. Posting here for years, other names. You can PM me if you want my other names for veracity.)

I feel like FWR is losing a connection to feminism, and becoming a free speech board with an upsetting number of anti-feminist and anti- w/c tropes appearing here, largely unchallenged, daily.

Today I note the patriarchal notion that mothers are to blame for their children's mentally illness being trotted out. ROGD children, subject to an individualist corporation mediated social pressure being called attention seekers. This veers towards t-phobia, imo. And a complete lack of recognition that feminism is for poor women too, a cohort to whom the economic right is no friend.

Am I unreasonable in my assessment that yes, FWR is sliding into anti-genderism, anti-feminist conservatism?

And regardless of whether I'm wrong or right, is there a place for international w/c socialist feminists to discuss gender, among the many other issues facing women and children?

TIA.

I'm reading this thread with interest.

Op says:But then right-wing and patriarchal tropes pop up, and they seem to go unchallenged. So idk what to think, frankly.

It's worth remembering that there may be more and more women joining who don't have the political contextual understanding you do. They may have no clear political affiliations.

If you see it, challenge it.

I've learnt from reading so many points of view, often far more knowledgeable than I ever could be; that's what healthy debate is for.

I recently joined the Marxist feminist group; they've got a really good website too.

I found it interesting as they're criticising how Marxist theories have the past still assumed that women's roles are unpaid.

I studied Russian history and my sister was in various Marxist and communist groups at uni but found them very misogynistic and so I admit to being a little uneasy with it. So I found it extremely novel to read.

I agree with floral that the label of GC feminism isn't helpful.

Feminism is gender stereotype critical as a basic foundation.

GC isn't a political movement.

I'm a feminist first, I'm not entirely sure which political slant I have; I think its best kept separate tbh.

The Marxist feminist idea that SAHM should have a monetary value due to how they contribute to our society I do like.

onthewomanquestion.com/2020/08/16/an-introduction-to-marxist-feminism-part-i-the-problem-of-fragmented-feminism/

I haven't read it all. I'm as nervous of the far left as the far right based on prior and current experiences.

There's some really good articles on there though.

All domestic abuse is done by men so they don’t need shelters”.
“You can’t sexually assault a man if you’re a woman, it’s impossible”
“Men are never afraid walking the streets at night, they don’t know what it’s like to feel unsafe”
“No mother is going to abuse her own child, it’s always the father.”

OK, statements like that, fair enough. I can honestly say though I have never seen any posts like that on this part of MN anyway. Mind, am not always on of course.

Trying to understand this thread, it’s heavy reading!

I’ve always leaned to the left, I’ve always tried to widen the debate to take into account unseen social biases that women face.

What I find interesting is I do wonder how much the ‘left’ at the moment is made up of white, middle class (privately educated?) men and women? Not sure how ‘left’ it is?

I feel like I’m lost politically at the moment. All I know is that I feel strongly that women’s rights (and no not just the Trans issues) are being eroded. For example I worry on a domestic and economic level Women are taking the brunt of the fall out of Covid-19. That the fall in rape convictions appalls me. That with social media girls feel they have to present themselves in certain ways. I also worry about the experience of women across the world.

Do these things make me left or right?

I would like to be a feminist.

Sorry I haven't had time to catch up on posts, and am sure this has probably been said before, but I suspect the mumsnet, like most of what is seen to be feminist organising, is not seen by working class women as somewhere they are acknowledged and allowed a voice.

ie I mean their own voice, not one filtered through the political analysis of the left or any other politics

and I suspect the same for women from BME communities.

This isn't to suggest either group aren't able to articulate their own views, but that most topics, discussions have a sort of default setting of middle class.

I would agree with that stumble.

There's also been a fair few issues with racism not being recognised on some threads across the site and some posters have been very verbal about that.

I’m struggling to see what the working class woman thing has to do with the topic of this thread.

Actually, sorry, it does make sense. I just don’t remember any time period in which MN was more about working class issues.

The default white assumption I understand. As a white woman it is something I always try to be mindful of.

But I don't understand the prevailing assumption of middle class. My dad was a union rep and my mum cleaned houses, until he left and we subsisted on benefits, and I was the first in my family to go uni, which I dropped out of to nurse mum when she was dying. I'm articulate, clever and well read. I don't know as I'm terribly comfortable with the assumption that I cannot also be working class.

Working class women should be left wing?

Most threads aren’t of any particular class. There are occasional middle class assumption work and childcare threads.

Well, there are certainly threads about nannies and au pairs and all that, but I've never assumed that every contributor to the site is living that sort of lifestyle.

No, definitely not. There are also plenty of threads where women are talking about struggling with austerity , poverty and housing issues.

Yup.

Anyway, I need to get offline if I'm going to get to bed, I have to go all the way to the east wing to get to my bedroom and I suspect the Butler hasn't finished polishing the silver, so I need to check before I turn in. Toodle pip!

I cannot match the erudition of some other posters on this thread but I just think the Left has betrayed women badly. It moved/changed, not me. I feel sold out and shut down time after time on issues relating to women's rights, employment, the environment and the allocation of scarce resources.

The phrase Regressive Left chimed with me a few years back. Also the concept of left and right not as a line but as a circle, where the far left and far right meet.

‘ I just think the Left has betrayed women badly. It moved/changed, not me.’

So many women feel this way.

Not sure why the focus shifted to m/c far leftism when the perspective I posed is from social Democrat w/c.

But whatever. Yeah, I'm tired. I've got no house to live in if I want to live free of my gaslighting, verbally abusive ex, and women more concerned about freedom of speech and promoting the right wing than the material lives of women under patriarchy have abandoned women like me.

Yes, it's sad to be politically homeless. It's even sadder to be literally homeless.

Like I said, whatever. R/w and/or m/c women are doing a good job in sport and child safeguarding. I'll always acknowledge the important heavy lifting happening there. Conservative and centrist women have a lot to offer to society, as do all women.

They just have zero solutions for the old, hard reality of women forced to trade abuse for a roof. The definition of women will be won, norms reasserted, long before there's a major push for the material well-being of poorer, older, more vulnerable or differently abled women.

I don't care, in some ways. I'll die on my feet what I am, a feminist social democrat who sees class and sex as intimately entwined.

Best of luck over there with the right. I do wonder what use they'll find for feminism once our utility as a wedge for the left fades. Hopefully I'm wrong and women's rights for all women will blossom somehow under free market neoliberal social conservatism.

Of course, I know all this is seen as just whining, and why don't YOU do something. So be it.