Accessible Toilets

[WarOnWomen]

I've just seen this thread by Fair Play for Women regarding their stance on toilets. Maya F is also on the thread clarifying the issue.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1312062467191734273?s=21

They are saying that everyone should be comfortable choosing the toilets they want to without being forced to share with opposite sex. Yup. Trans people should also not have to share with people designated at birth. Yup, also agree. Have a mix sex category for people who don't mind and trans people. Sure.

They are saying these facilities already exist. Accessible toilets. This is where I feel lost and let down. These toilets are for disabled people. People worked hard to get these accessible toilets. I don't want my mum having to share these toilets with trans women, anymore than I want them in female spaces. It's just wrong. And don't disabled people have a say as part of the EA2010?

Please tell me I have the wrong end of the stick.

Kendodd why do you think the country has moved to the right? I've heard this but don't agree. I think the edges have become very vocal and it gives the impression of a shift. It might be because of the Brexit vote but if you listen to some of the opinions of leavers, you find very centre voters who have been 'branded' (I voted remain but didn't like the branding of leavers).

Opinion surveys show that the country has not shifted. Jeremy Corbyn was convinced that the country had moved left. When both sides are convinced there has been movement, you can guarantee there hasn't been a shift at all, only the extremes have moved and they don't count politically

Talking of Sainsbury's:
twitter.com/Baroness_Nichol/status/1303620735785730048?s=20

I love The baroness.

'Left' and 'right' aren't very meaningful descriptors nowadays

..unless you're at the traffic lights.

I've stopped seeing myself as left wing, for sure.

These days I just have opinions about things.

These days I just have opinions about things.

Yep.

@334bu

Trans allies. Peter Bright Eric Joyce David Challenor

The above all support self ID and have all been convicted of heinous crimes. However, nobody accuses other supporters of self id of sharing their proclivities just because they share one opinion on one topic.

There are no gushing threads on trans forums about these men saying they really get it so we should ignore the other stuff and read their latest book or post on Quillette is there?

Why do you think some right wing men have taken such an interest in this conflict? Because they care about women's spaces? Please, they don't give a shit about women or trans women, but they recognise a damaging split both within feminism and the left and are quite happy to insert themselve into the middle of it and pour on as much petrol as possible. The Tories must have been pissing themselves watching Labour and the Greens tear themselves apart over this issue, they are desperate to prolong this row and ensure no consensus can be found. The enemy of your enemy in this case is also very much your enemy, simpy masquerading as your friend.

But more than that they are recruiting. Every time Breitbart or someone posts about the trans menace and it's shared on forums like this and GC twitter then they know some people might read some of the other stuff on their site, that this is a group of people who aren't so hot on fact checking and may be persuaded to condemn someone like antifa as terrorists, or claim Black Lives Matter are dangerous extremists because they oppose capitalism and want to destroy the nuclear family - two key aims of radical feminism, turned into slurs by right wing men and repeated on feminist forums. So it's working, right wing support for GC activism is drawing some people to the right, to the extent that key figure like Sonia Poulton and Venice Allen are now openly preaching anti-mask and other conspiracy theories and the likes of Posie Parker and Harry Miller are happy to stand alongside them. The right are using GC activism as a penetration point into the left to disrupt and recruit, they couldn't give a fuck about women's refuges or sex based rights. And way too many people are cheering them on and remaining wilfully ignorant about what their agenda actually is.

Wow maybe if the left cared more about women's rights then the right wouldn't have an open goal to shoot into.
Also ,maybe it's because the men I mentioned upthread have been convicted of heinous crimes that there are no gushing articles written about them.
On can only wonder what such men and other MRA activists have to gain by attacking women trying to defend their female only spaces.

Any more stories about your 'young feminist' friends and what they think jj?

It's starting to look a bit like a Mary Sue narrative from here - 'and then I shouted 'TWAW!' and all the cool young feminists stood up and cheered!' - but I'm sure the next draft will iron that out?

I haven't seen anything from Breitbart shared here? I also think you are conflating right with hard right and they are not the same thing.

Being from the left, I at least have the decency to acknowledge that there are grades of right and there are grades of left.

I do not accept that in order to progress feminism, I should include men.

I should have specified MtF trans inclusion would not progress feminism

Wow maybe if the left cared more about women's rights then the right wouldn't have an open goal to shoot into.

Indeed.

I'm under 35, as is my DW 🤷🏼‍♀️

@CloudyVanilla

Of course it does! You have to have reasonable grounds to say an entire group of people is an objective threat before you exclude them!

I don't even know why I'm arguing anymore. The default position in law of having single sex spaces (good) and only excluding trans women if it is seen as necessary (good) is fine with me.

So - the fact that the percentage of violence which is committed by males is in the high 90s, then. There's your reason. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Meanwhile in "we just want to live our lives" I don't see why any female person has to share any of their intimate spaces with the likes of this person

@AmericanSlang

Meanwhile in "we just want to live our lives" I don't see why any female person has to share any of their intimate spaces with the likes of this person

They’re an absolute troll. Best ignored.

They're a journalist for The Independent. And taken seriously by some people who call themselves feminists

They're a journalist for The Independent. And taken seriously by some people who call themselves feminists

Really? Who is it?

Ahh no matter, it took about 2 seconds to figure out who it is.

The right are using GC activism as a penetration point into the left to disrupt and recruit, they couldn't give a fuck about women's refuges or sex based rights.

TRAs also couldn't give a fuck about women's sex based rights (apart from wanting to dismantle them). So using your logic that must mean that TRAs are aligned with 'the right'. This actually seems more likely than left wing feminists suddenly becoming 'right wing'.

Why do you think some right wing men have taken such an interest in this conflict? Because they care about women's spaces? Please, they don't give a shit about women or trans women, but they recognise a damaging split both within feminism and the left and are quite happy to insert themselve into the middle of it and pour on as much petrol as possible

I would guess that the likes of say Douglas Murray, Jordan Peterson, Ben Shapiro, Rod Liddle have very little interest in women's issues. I don't think for one minute their lack of interest means, as I've often seen on here, that "they are no friends of women" or that they are seeking to do anything which removes women's rights to be treated equally.

These men all however oppose Antifa, Black Lives Matter (that is the trademarked Marxist version- I don't believe for one minute they oppose equality for black people and people of colour) social justice warriors, the authoritarian left and the threat to freedom of speech. The fact they might speak out on trans issues is simply a part of their general objection to the totalitarian left and compelled thinking.

Shapiro is ruthlessly anti abortion, Liddle had repeatedly undermined rape and sexual assault and Peterson has spoken in favour of enforced monogamy. Of course it would harm women if they ever got the kind of society they advocate.

And if it were the 1970s those same men would be railing against the dangerous Marxism and authoritarianism of Dworkin and McKinnon. That's what wealthy white right wing men do, anything that might affect their privileged position is totalitarian.

That doesn't mean the left is beyond criticism, but if you really can't see that these men are profoundly anti-feminist, dangerous for women and in their own way every bit as authoritarian and censorious as the worst of those they attack you are breathtakingly naive.

And if it were the 1970s those same men would be railing against the dangerous Marxism and authoritarianism of Dworkin and McKinnon

Hmm, well so would I.

People like David Challenor , a fervent supporter of self id and the inventor of the T**f blocker on twitter, guilty of torture and raping a female child is equally dangerous to women as are many of the MRA activists who are using the trans agenda as a way to attack women.
Women are only too aware from millennia of experience that male people often give their support to their struggle only when it suits their own agenda. No person born male can understand what it is to be a woman, just as no female can truly understand what it is to be male.
We know not to expect that all of our supporters will have only our best interests at heart. However, they at least are not trying to erase us as a group.