Accessible Toilets

[WarOnWomen]

I've just seen this thread by Fair Play for Women regarding their stance on toilets. Maya F is also on the thread clarifying the issue.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1312062467191734273?s=21

They are saying that everyone should be comfortable choosing the toilets they want to without being forced to share with opposite sex. Yup. Trans people should also not have to share with people designated at birth. Yup, also agree. Have a mix sex category for people who don't mind and trans people. Sure.

They are saying these facilities already exist. Accessible toilets. This is where I feel lost and let down. These toilets are for disabled people. People worked hard to get these accessible toilets. I don't want my mum having to share these toilets with trans women, anymore than I want them in female spaces. It's just wrong. And don't disabled people have a say as part of the EA2010?

Please tell me I have the wrong end of the stick.

@Langsdestiny

That's right jj the men who argue against the GC viewpoint are on the other hand upstanding members of the community, I can detail their criminal convictions if you wish.

Let’s just gloss over old Peter Thatchell shall we😂 lalala, can’t hear you...

The only truly GC party in the UK are the Communists. As card carrying members my grandparents would have been very surprised to know that they were right wing extremists. Trans inclusion is embedded in Iran as well but it is hardly a progressive state.

Then where was the backlash against lesbian and gay acceptance by millenials?

The current trans/queer movement is the backlash. How much do they accept homosexuals? How are the lesbians doing, these days, hmm?

But identity politics isn't the same as LGB politics. Because of the inconvenient truth that TWANW. HTH.

@jj1968

And whatever today's teens think, tomorrow's teens, in a couple of years, will think the opposite, as a foregone conclusion.

Then where was the backlash against lesbian and gay acceptance by millenials? Political progress doesn't work like fashion. Trans inclusion is embedded in many parts of the world, most notably the states. The world hasn't ended. Women still exist in New York and California. No-one cares about this stuff in the states except the extreme right. In the absence of some kind of far right coup then there is no reason to think that's not where we're heading. Much of Europe is already there.

Oh give over jj.

You're flogging a dead horse. No one here is taking the slightest bit of notice of all your deflections and inaccurate analysis.

Who on earth are you trying to convince?

It's just daft.

@NecessaryScene1

Then where was the backlash against lesbian and gay acceptance by millenials?

The current trans/queer movement is the backlash. How much do they accept homosexuals? How are the lesbians doing, these days, hmm?

More young people are identifying as lesbian, gay or bisexual in the UK than at any point in history so I'm not sure where you get that from.

www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/culturalidentity/sexuality/bulletins/sexualidentityuk/2018

@NecessaryScene1I think this is where the GC movement may be somewhat out of touch. The idea that young people suddenly all hate gays and lesbians because they accept trans people seems a bit bonkers to a lot of young folk. It just doesn't reflect their reality, and neither do the stories of bearded predators stalking women's spaces and pretending to be trans. They've grown up in a much more trans inclusive world to us, and they are very far from terrified. They weren't indoctrinated by transphobic media and films like Psycho and Silence of the Lambs, but Pose and Sense8. It's just normal to them. That's not going to change.

Good job 14 olds don't make laws them

Yeah. We're out of touch. Totally.

My friend lives with her girlfriend. Just down her street there is a flat in which a fairly well known non-binary person (female) and their non-binary partner (male) live. My friend doesn't feel particularly welcome at Pride or Stonewall etc anymore. But this couple are all over those things. Because they are a 'queer' couple.

Now if you had told me this story five years ago I would have said it wasn't true. But this is the progressive nature of gender identity. Lesbians who don't feel welcome in the spaces that were for them because they have been pushed out by terribly special heterosexuals.

So does the non binary male partner get to use female only spaces too ? Is they a lesbian when they feel more feminine than masculine? If they gets paid more than a female colleague in the same job is that sex discrimination or does it not count because they are neither man nor woman?

The thing is they are no more GNC than anybody else I know. She has shortish hair? Maybe that's the key.

Sorry - they. They has shortish hair.

What's not true?

That was to evensupposing

It's just normal to them. That's not going to change.

I suspect it will change for many. Youth trends don't tend to stay, especially when they are based on an illogical premise. And with age comes experience, and the increased likelihood of sexual harrassment and assault by males as time goes on. Male pattern violence does not change just because someone identifies as female. And those young women will go on to have children themselves and the dangers they once mocked and dismissed will be then become obvious to them. Without a doubt many will change their minds on this. The generations coming up behind them won't be so gulible to this ideology either. We're making sure of that.

It's not true that TWAW. Or TWAM. And whether such a thing as 'transgender' as defined by Stonewall et al exists is very much disputed territory.

Whereas the fact that some people are homosexual is indisputably true. Which is why attempts to show equivalence with LGB campaigning are flawed.

Nothing normal about believing something which is patently false. You can chant the mantra TWAW, but just as Galileo said of the Earth "eppure si muove" , no amount of wishful thinking will make it true.
Unfortunately many young women will quickly find out how manipulative, coercive and aggressive many males can be. This unfortunately may well also include transwomen,cross dressers, non binary and gender fluid males, as there is no evidence to suggest that they are any different from other males. Their only protection will be the sex based rights their mothers and grandmothers fought for and of course the good men who recognise the importance of these rights for women and who stand with women to defend them.

There aren't enough public toilets and especially accessible toilets anyway. This should be a massive feminist issue, because women are disproportionately much more likely to experience continence issues.

My mother has to plan every trip out of the house around loo provision. It makes you realize how few there are, and vanishingly few that she can easily and safely use by herself.

The generations coming up behind them won't be so gulible to this ideology either. We're making sure of that.

I don't think you are, you're just alienating people. The slightest disagreement from a young person and you immediately dismiss them as woke idiots, homophobes, beards, handmaidens, misogynists and groomers. You're telling them they must not be kind to their trans friends and sisters, and if they are placed in danger or assaulted because of demands you make then it's "not women's problem". You act as apologists for the worst kind of creepy men like Jordan Peterson, share Breitbart links and now Posie and co have decided to even pick a fight with Black Lives Matter. You sneer constantly about blue haired woke idiots and then expect them to listen to you and seem utterly obsessed with trans women when young people are far more worried about climate chang and economic uncertainty which all barely seem to register in GC circles, probably because they won't really affect your demographic . I hate to break it, but a lot of them think you're absolute monsters.

FPFW have issued an apology. But not sure that accessible toilets are off the hook yet.

twitter.com/fairplaywomen/status/1312787407071256576?s=20

Political acceptance of marginalised groups isn't a trend though. It is quite rare that we go backwards in terms of progressive acceptance. Although it can't be denied it is happening, particularly in the states with the increasing scrutiny of abortion rights.

It's only going in one direction jj. What do you think happens once the litigation starts in the US?

The moment I knew it was won was when I saw that no win no fee ad this week.

OMG! You are not conflating this bullshit with abortion rights! Fuck me you've got some fucking nerve!

Oh yes. I'm 26 and have been called a handmaiden or wokester here many times. Its quite off putting.

I think what I find most off putting though is the increasing use of seeing kindness as a negative trait. We are told that women are always told to be kind. I am a mother and I also remember my own mother telling all of us to be kind.

Now the concept of being kind is used to ridicule women who are compassionate to other people. I do consider that alienating due to the sheer lack of empathy shown.

I'm not talking solely about this thread, it's many and in the context of lots of different issues.

The moment I knew it was won was when I saw that no win no fee ad this week.

Yep.

If fighting to ensure women are free from male violence and do not suffer undue discrimination simply because of their sex makes us monsters then so be it. Personally I think that the males trying to erode women's boundaries are the real monsters.