Simulated pregnancy and induced lactation

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

Should possibly come with all sorts of trigger/content warnings.

DH just sent me this:

twitter.com/godblesstoto/status/1311050509072113664?s=20

TW simulating pregnancy and birth (in a house where their STBEx-wife and children live), already “planning” that the baby will be stillborn, and then wondering aloud if someone will lend them a baby to breastfeed.

All in a group for mothers taking medication so they can produce milk for their babies. Given how poor breastfeeding support is for many mothers in all parts of the world I can’t work out whether I’m more offended, disgusted, or terrified that this person has centred themselves and has people cheering them on.

DH questioned why women were commenting in support - I said it was part of the socialisation to “be nice”. His response was that it’s not being nice, it’s dangerous. And he’s right, but why can so many women not see it? Does it go beyond socialisation? According to other posts in the thread women were removed from the group for saying the person’s post was offensive/triggering to those who had experienced the loss of a child.

I don’t even know why I’m posting it really, other than I was so agog and this is one of the few places open to comment on things since I abandoned twitter

@WeeBisom

I think the fact this person is trans is blinding some people (like the women on Facebook) to how incredibly weird this whole thing is. I don't think for one minute a woman would get as much sympathy, hand holding, and support if she came on a forum and said she was going to simulate a pregnancy and still birth. It would be clear as day that something was deeply wrong with her and she was in need of mental health care. It seems the second someone identifies as trans all common sense flies out the window. The latest update is his friends have refused to help him with his birth, so there are actually women offering to drive round to his house to assist him!

That's very true - it actually applies to anyone. The fact that it ends in a stillbirth is even worse. It's natural (for mainly children) to enact all sorts of scenarios, but for a grown person to sort of play-act something that results in such tragedy is deeply questionable .

I can't help but compare this to the treatment of Chrissy Teigen. She actually suffered a loss, which she shared on social media. Obviously she has received a great deal of sympathy for her loss and the horrible experience she had, but she has also been on the receiving end of a lot of criticism for sharing the photos and experience so openly on Instagram. She's been accused of being distasteful and attention-seeking, amongst other things.

I dunno, this is very disjointed, but I feel that there are some double standards at play here.

@TinselAngel

It does make me feel very sad for the person.

I think we'd all be better saving our sympathy for the wife and children.

The wife sounds like she’s desperately trying to protect her children. This person sounds genuinely hostile to her.

This person as in the person who is wanting to simulate pregnancy

Play acting a still birth with associated grief presumably but then wanting an actual volunteer baby to suck their nipple in order to breastfeed....

I saw elsewhere that women were suggesting that this person should BORROW A BABY so they can "breastfeed" it with whatever substance the nipples are leaking - and some were even saying they'd lend their own children if they weren't unfortunately too far away.

These women concern me and I truly worry if their children are safe with them.

WishIWasSomewhereElse Thats not what breast milk looks like.. I had to express when my second was born with heart disease, it did not look like this and apparently I can express a lot and the midwives would know as they get handed milk from women on the daily, even I didn’t produce as much as whatever that liquid is.. more like a few mls in a syringe those first few days, you are even allowed to use a pump straightaway.

Aren’t even allowed to use a pump that should say.

Jesus **ING Christ. There isn't enough mind and eye bleach in the world to unsee this...

This has really offenders and upset me. I have had 5 IVF cycles resulting in 3 pregnancies, the first gave me my son with congenital brain abnormalities and we had to strongly consider wether to tfmr or not, we kept going and I ended up with a severe rectocele and moderate cystocele from a failed ventous attempt and then a forceps with episiotomy delivery. Why they decided to yank him out by his head instead of doing a section when they knew he had brain abnormalities and that his head was on the 98th centile I don't understand. My second pregnancy ended in miscarriage at 8 weeks and I was devestated. My third pregnancy we found out our very longed for and loved son was extremly ill with multiple severe fetal abnormalities due to vacter and heterotaxy syndrome. He had heart defects, spinal defects, kidney defects, no anus and essentially needed his entire gi tract surgically rebuilding. We did not get the full diagnosis along with prognosis, quality of life estimate and life expectancy and all the surgeries he would need (over a dozen as a baby) until 25 weeks. We chose to let him only know the warmth and safety of my womb, the only guaranteed thing if we continued was that his life would be short and full of pain. It is the absolute worst thing that has ever happened to me and my partner. My son was induced to be delivered stillborn at 26+2 and it took 12 hours after the beginning to be induced to deliver him. It was more painful even though he was only 2lbs than labouring with my 8 lb - Oz first son,I think because it was induced, my pelvic floor is destroyed so it was hard to know when go push and if I was actually managing it, dead babies can't help you birth them, plus I got intensely emotional when the pain was felt bad knowing he was dead. Seeing him on the bed so beautiful, so still and silent was horrific and i have constant flash backs of that moment and nightmares. It was horrific for my partner too but he has never tried to appropriate my physical pain, he would tear any man a new one if they tried to stimulate a still birth or told someone doing that that their feelings are valid. This tra isn't going to have any of that physical or emotional pain, he's not going to holds desperately wanted child dead in his arms, he isn't going to leave a hospital with abox in his arms instead of a baby and return to an empty nursery where he will have to pack away all the babies things. He isn't going to start lactating after a day or two and have his body tell him to wake up and feed a baby who isn't there in the night. He isn't going to have to arrange a funeral service for a dead wanted baby, he isn't going to see that beautiful child laying in a coffin instead of a Moses basket, he isn't going to see their body deteriorate but visit the funeral home anyway because that's the only time that you will ever have with your wanted loved baby. He isn't going to have to return to the funeral home to collect that babies ashes. He isn't going to bleed for weeks and gave huge clots and meaty chunks of placenta come out of his body, suffer fever, weakness and dizzyness and be fobbed off by doctors because it's come out now there won't be anymore you won't need a scan, then bleed for several more weeks and pass several more lumps of placenta before finally being reffered to gynacology. He isn't going to then be dismissed by gynacology because his HCG level is 0 so it must all be out, told it's just a hormone imbalance and sent on his way. The only reason I eventually got a scan and then medical management for retained placenta is because my lovely dp got mad at me being constantly dismissed and my symptoms ignored, he rang them every hour on the hour for two days straight, eventually got passed to a consultant who booked me in for a scan the very next day. They wouldn't listen to me the actual patient and woman heavily bleeding for 10 weeks, passing lumps of obvious placental tissue and in constant pain, they would only listen to a man who was angry and wouldn't let it drop. He isn't going to have the constant nightmares of his child dying followed by his living children dying in many horrendous ways in a continuous awful loop everytime he tries to sleep, he isn't going to wake up angry and upset everyday because he's alive but his child isn't, he isn't going to battle the urge to kill himself everyday so that he can be with his dead child. The only reason I'm still breathing is because of my living son, I'm consumed by guilt and shame,I just want both my boys. It's disgusting that this individual thinks his behaviour is ok and even worse that he is being encouraged and facilitated to do it. Asking loss mother's how they dealt with it so he can play act more convincingly is utterly vile. I fee extremely sorry for his work colleagues, if I worked with him I'd either have to go sick until he was done with his fake pregnancy and still birth or quit. There's no way I could be in the same room as him he would constantly be triggering me. I also feel extremely sorry for his ex wife and children who are being forced to endure his sick fantasy.

So sorry for your loss.

Tigger85 so sorry

Have you been offered any support with the flashbacks? PTSD is horrific, I have had it for years but treatment has really helped. PM me if you want xx

I'm so sorry Tigger85 I recognise so much of what you just described.

Have you spoken to your GP? I waited nearly two years before I realised that it wasn't "normal" grief that I was feeling. She referred me to a councillor (also offered CBT and anti depressants - it was up to me what I tried first) and it's made such a difference. I was lucky that I have an excellent GP, so if yours hasn't been helpful, please try another one or your bereavement midwife, if you were allocated one.

Oh @Tigger85 I’m so sorry to read your story.

Oh @tigger85 I'm so sorry for what you've gone through. Are going through.

I'm so sorry Tigger85

Tigger I'm so sorry

so very sorry for your loss Tigger.

Please don't take this the wrong way -
I've debated about posting this but am going to just in case ... women's pain and our personal stories are exactly what this creature wanted to read about and fantasise about. He's very possibly reading this thread without the slightest self awareness or remorse.

I'm only saying this in case anyone feels like they might like to withdraw their words after sharing them here for a while?

Thank you for the condolences, it only happened this July so I had to go to all the scans and be given that terrible news alone because of covid. He was allowed in to the fetal medicine scans but not the heart scans, they thankfully allowed him to stay with me for the inducing and labour, I don't think I would have coped if he wasnt allowed to be with me for the stillbirth of our sweet little boy.dorry for the spelling and grammar errors, I was crying when I wrote my post and didn't proof read it.

@crunchermuncher and @GCNewbie my GP hasn't given any support as it hasn't been long enough to know if it is normal grief or something more yet. You always see someone randomly each time you go,never the same Dr. My employer has arranged councelling that I don't have to pay for and they will call later this week. I previously had pnd after all the stress of my first born sons pregnancy, we didn't know if he was going to be ok or disabled and his birth has prolonged and traumatic. I took citalopram back then and it took ages to come off them so I would prefer some form of therapy before going back to medications if I can. I don't have a berevment midwife and I had 3 visits after my son's birth, I tried calling them when I was concerned I had retained placenta but they didn't help me, just told me to call the gp.

Tigger85 I’m sorry you went through all of that.

It can be really difficult to access the right support. Glad you have your partner to fight your corner. Can SANDS charity signpost any further help? It can be really beneficial to speak to someone with experience (or at least an understanding) of the issues you have faced.

Thank you, Tigger.

I appreciate you sharing your story because we can use it to hone our disgust and galvanise to reject the fetishisation of our pain.

I am so sorry.

I'm so sorry @Tigger85

@Quietlyloud

I saw elsewhere that women were suggesting that this person should BORROW A BABY so they can "breastfeed" it with whatever substance the nipples are leaking - and some were even saying they'd lend their own children if they weren't unfortunately too far away.

These women concern me and I truly worry if their children are safe with them.

This is horrifying.

He wanted to donate to a milk bank as well. Imagine being a Mum so desperate to give your baby breast milk that you resort to a milk bank and unknowingly feeding them whatever comes out of him.

It makes me feel ill.