Simulated pregnancy and induced lactation

[GingerAndTheBiscuits]

Should possibly come with all sorts of trigger/content warnings.

DH just sent me this:

twitter.com/godblesstoto/status/1311050509072113664?s=20

TW simulating pregnancy and birth (in a house where their STBEx-wife and children live), already “planning” that the baby will be stillborn, and then wondering aloud if someone will lend them a baby to breastfeed.

All in a group for mothers taking medication so they can produce milk for their babies. Given how poor breastfeeding support is for many mothers in all parts of the world I can’t work out whether I’m more offended, disgusted, or terrified that this person has centred themselves and has people cheering them on.

DH questioned why women were commenting in support - I said it was part of the socialisation to “be nice”. His response was that it’s not being nice, it’s dangerous. And he’s right, but why can so many women not see it? Does it go beyond socialisation? According to other posts in the thread women were removed from the group for saying the person’s post was offensive/triggering to those who had experienced the loss of a child.

I don’t even know why I’m posting it really, other than I was so agog and this is one of the few places open to comment on things since I abandoned twitter

There's been a few people saying that it's not fair to discuss this person because it's making generalisations about trans people in general.

This person is telling lies and other people are pandering to it. He's simply repeating the behaviour of all the men who say they are women and are celebrated for it.

This person is just one of many examples why this stuff needs to be restrained.

What I want to know is where are the usual pom pom people who usually pop up baring teeth and calls of transphobia on these threads? I'm sure they've read it.

I have often wondered, gamerchick, why the trans community tolerates the behaviour of people like this. I'd distance myself from a woman who behaved in this way.

The transumbrella has done a lot of harm.

In terms of woke language, isn't this clear cultural appropriation? Well, it is biological appropriation, but given male socialisation and privilege I would think that some appropriation-language is appropriate.

In terms of woke language, isn't this clear cultural appropriation?

You mean like a man saying he's a woman?

I think this article - one of my favourites from the last few years - might be a good insight into some of the female psychology here. It's about more general "feminist" behaviour, rather than this extreme pandering example, but still very relevant.

It's by Louise Perry, who I believe is involved in the "We Can't Consent to This" campaign about the rough sex defence.

quillette.com/2019/12/30/are-contemporary-feminists-too-agreeable/

Key point is that the (self-selected) population of so-called femisists has changed over the years, and hence so has the average personality:

Third Wave feminism is endlessly accommodating of the interests of men affiliated with the Left who have any claim to oppression, regardless of the effect it might have on women.

Second Wave feminists didn’t care very much about being nice to those outside of their movement. Antagonism and unpopularity was just the cost of doing business as a fringe political group.

@highame

Curiously, though, I haven't seen any trans women expressing much of an interest in menopausal issues.

I'm just watching and waiting for it to appear on the 'it'll never happen thread'

Alas, too late, it has already happened here on this board.

A trans poster posted here a while back about how terribly they had suffered through their menopause - “six months of hormone hell”. I explained, as kindly as I could, that what they had been through was not in fact the menopause, and that it causes women who, like me, have struggled horribly through the actual, real menopause, great pain and upset to have our experiences appropriated, trivialised, stolen and play acted at. Hurt Feelings Ensued - how could I be so cruel? Didn’t I understand the agony of those six months? (Six months- I fucking ask you. Try a couple of DECADES of hormonal chaos that is entirely usual for many women)

The worst of it was, as the debate continued, I felt like the transwoman’s narrative subtly shifted to more closely mirror my experiences.

This creep here gives me an amplified feeling of the same squickiness.

The women supporting this utter nonsense aren’t being kind. Male bodies don’t have female experiences. This is the logical extension of TWAW - as PPs point out, it’s really no more absurd to claim that a male can be pregnant and breastfeed an infant than it is to say a male can become a female. It’s like there being no such thing as “a little bit pregnant” - you are or you’re not.

So, why haven't they made it easier for themselves and tried to appropriate my dusting and hoovering skills?

Sophocles hormone hell here too, I wonder if at some point these drug companies will actually start to really work on menopausal issues and come up with something better than hit or miss drugs.

Fist bump, highame.

In the same boat SophaclestheFox and highame. It feels like menopause is never ending. And the appropriation of our biology continues unchecked and unabated.

A tweet that talks about the anticipation of getting a uterus transplant only so they can have an abortion had 20k likes last night when I looked.

What I want to know is where are the usual pom pom people who usually pop up baring teeth and calls of transphobia on these threads? I'm sure they've read it.

If they haven’t commented here, some are spreading their disgust at women being disgusted on other threads. They are like the Limerick Feminists and others who expressed horror that a violent teen was dead named while not expressing that horror that the teen was insisting on being housed in a female prison. And this was after said teen said they wished they had caused more injury to their victims.

These women who support male’s rights to simulate these experiences are simply ignoring the harm to women. Every single time.

They cannot call these transwomen out because then they would be the phobic ones and they’d have use the Pointy Finger of Shame on themselves!

I've noticed that those who haunt this topic to call us all transphobes are never around on the topics like this one.
Evidence of a fetishist using women for their gain which is proven and cannot be refuted?
Nothing to see here, if you ask the TRAs. Whistles

@SunsetBeetch

Easy to be a busy worker bee when you're not actually growing a person...

@WeeBisom

A woman who had a stillbirth was removed from the group for saying that this was outrageously offensive. I know that women are socialised to be nice and helpful but do they seriously not see how messed up this is?

Disgusting but not at all surprising. This is grossly offensive. Those enabling this are quite shitty also, even if they are 'just trying to be nice'. The women suggesting he join other groups as 'most' will be supportive when they hear the story/reasons?! Fuck off.

They cannot call these transwomen out because then they would be the phobic ones and they’d have use the Pointy Finger of Shame on themselves!

Indeed. Also one of the reasons Yaniv was invisible to many TRAs. Justifying him is clearly bonkers, but saying anything else makes the house of cards fall, afterall, he is who he says he is because he says it, and thats that. But it will never happen of course. Nope. Never has, never will.

I did see a few women kicking off with the Yaniv thing, but not at the part where most rational people would have issues. The reason for them kicking off was that people were misgendering Yaniv. Apparently, no matter what someone does, deadnaming is one of the most horrific things anyone can ever do

I bet there has been many many women kicked out of this group behind the scenes, for daring to voice that this is obviously fucking all shades of wrong. People who enable this bullshit and tell women off for talking about it are just dickheads tbh. Regardless of if they are just 'being inclusive', because even a second of thought on it should make clear this is just vile. So those kicking out women know these women are right, they just prefer to take the fetishists side (and no, thats not saying all transwomern are fetishists, which should go without saying but obviously doesn't) for an easier life and woke cookies. Ignoring the damage being done to women who might actually need that support group.

You can’t call out the fetishists because that would be acknowledging that AGPs exist.

(Awaits deletion...)

The individual in question is now having a right old moan that it 'didn't go to plan' because it didn't last long enough and 'wasn't painful enough'

Of course. Nothing is ever good enough because whatever weird games they play with their clothes or bodies, they will never ever get where they want to be. And the "gender euphoria" iykwim only lasts so long.

Gabrielle's wife laboured for 3.5 hours so Gabrielle is going to simulate labour for 4?

The other thing that fucks me off is that within the group, most posts only get a handful of responses. At most around 20-30. A lot go by without any at all.

This guy’s “updates”- well into the hundreds.

So, why haven't they made it easier for themselves and tried to appropriate my dusting and hoovering skills?

I've always been fascinated at how trans women's inner sense of womanhood and female-ness seems to largely be expressed in ways that mimic male ideas of what it is to be female. It's all about getting your nails done, doing your hair, frilly dresses, having 'girl talk' with besties, and, in the above case, a pastiche of what pregnancy and motherhood is ('4 hours of labor & fully intact nether regions ' LOL. Try 36 with an episiotomy, dear).

It never seems to extend to being paid less, doing menial service jobs, being a carer to small children or the elderly at huge financial cost to yourself, sacrificing your career for others or doing all the unpaid 'wifework' that is the bane of many women's lives. Funny how that works...

A tweet that talks about the anticipation of getting a uterus transplant only so they can have an abortion had 20k likes last night when I looked.

Well that stopped me cold.
I actually feel sick having read that.

I can’t get my head around so many people encouraging this crap yet, those same people would ridicule a woman walking around with a pushchair and a doll while dealing with metal health issues or simply the trauma from losing a child. I don’t get it and I never will, this is shameful. So many women can’t have children and here this person with biological children is yapping that they can’t experience childbirth.. I’ve never seen those women that can’t have kids doing weird shit like this.

I find it utterly bizarre that people have the time to ponder their gender.

@HeirloomTomato

So, why haven't they made it easier for themselves and tried to appropriate my dusting and hoovering skills?

I've always been fascinated at how trans women's inner sense of womanhood and female-ness seems to largely be expressed in ways that mimic male ideas of what it is to be female. It's all about getting your nails done, doing your hair, frilly dresses, having 'girl talk' with besties, and, in the above case, a pastiche of what pregnancy and motherhood is ('4 hours of labor & fully intact nether regions ' LOL. Try 36 with an episiotomy, dear).

It never seems to extend to being paid less, doing menial service jobs, being a carer to small children or the elderly at huge financial cost to yourself, sacrificing your career for others or doing all the unpaid 'wifework' that is the bane of many women's lives. Funny how that works...

Isn't it just.

@Bellesavage

I find it utterly bizarre that people have the time to ponder their gender.

Well you know when we were promised that technology would give us more free time? (Where is my robot butler, btw, internet?) well, this is what happens. Virtual navel gazing.

I’ve never seen those women that can’t have kids doing weird shit like this.

No. We’re generally told we’re selfish, left it too late, overvalued our careers, should take up a hobby, should have frozen our eggs, shouldn’t have had that termination at 19, should try to adopt. Basically, shut up it’s your fault.