Irish women, have you seen this?

[SecondRow]

The HSE removed the word "woman" from their CERVICAL screening pages
I stumbled across this tweet
twitter.com/Salwicklow/status/1305967737563422720?s=20

politely asking them to put woman back in, alongside trans men and trans women, who both get their own special mentions, but they have brushed off the woman who made the original request and are no longer replying.

Here's the HSE pages
www2.hse.ie/screening-and-vaccinations/cervical-screening/when-you-should-have-cervical-screening/who-should-have-cervical-screening.html

And here's Aoife Martin - no cervix skin in the game inviting followers to mock women for wanting the 99.9% of people who need cervical screening to be named as such by a health service that already has some serious catching up to do before women can believe it has their best interests at heart.

twitter.com/aoifemrtn/status/1306339571790159872?s=20

Yes, it's risky for anyone offering services and ironically brings us back around to possibly having to advertise a service as being for "people with... I don't know... labia?!"

"Vulval waxing"

"Nonorchidal depilation"

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/national-womens-council-of-ireland-to-hse-change-anyone-with-a-cervix-advice-wvblnmplt

I’d love to know who they did their extensive testing with. Did they spell out the implications of not using the word woman, that some women. won’t know what a cervix is or that women’s services are being eroded.

@ForeverFaithless

I have received an email response from the IHREC, I will post the complete details later.

Annasgirl - the GRA legislation supersedes the sex based rights of the Equality Act

I realize your response has already been sent (and it was very good). But I was wondering if one should inquire if guidance uses the literal equivalent of "people with a cervix" when translating to languages other than English-- or if they stick with "women." If the former, I would ask if there were studies done in the other languages. If the latter, I'd wonder why.

Sorry. I see now you've already gotten a canned response. 😕

[quote GrainneMhaol]www.thetimes.co.uk/article/national-womens-council-of-ireland-to-hse-change-anyone-with-a-cervix-advice-wvblnmplt[/quote]
I was coming on to post this too! This shit show has made the British papers. The NWCI seem to be taking the right approach to this too. Is it too much to hope that they’ve seen the light?

The market research company Core Research is mentioned as having been involved in coming up with the new wording. I wonder if they still have a copy of the "extensive testing" lying around that the HSE so carelessly mislaid?

This outcome would make me question core research’s approach to researching. They should have started the questionnaire with which sex has a cervix? Then where is you cervix? What does your cervix do? They should have also checked the understanding of the phrase ‘people with a cervix’ and the understanding of which groups this applies to. That would have picked up the comprehension issue immediately. Next they should have a question about removing the word women completely from literature and if this was negative or positive for females.

@Porridgeoat - I’d love to know who they did their extensive testing with. Did they spell out the implications of not using the word woman, that some women. won’t know what a cervix is or that women’s services are being eroded.

I have asked who they did their testing with and how they conducted it. I'm still waiting on a reply.

Didn't know which thread to put this on so sorry if
off topic.

Rosin Ingle tweets Jenni Murray article

Imagine the confusion of her followers? How to respond wokely?

twitter.com/roisiningle/status/1312690015881887744?s=20

Alert

The Sunday Times report that the National Women's Council of Ireland have requested the HSE replace their new wording on the Cervical Cancer information to state "women, girls and anyone with a cervix".

The NWCI are meeting with the HSE and TENI to discuss - now while I do not support the inclusion of TENI in this, I guess they are not going to go the whole hog in the current climate.

It is on page 5 of the main paper. Well done ladies, keep up the good fight, this whole thing has opened up a shocking can of worms where we realise how badly we have been shafted by the GRA. It also references Sarah Anderson - shout out of you are here Sarah, well done for getting this the publicity it required.

Thanks for that update Annasgirl. Maybe there really is value in on-goingly prompting the NWCI to remember what the W stands for. Maybe it would be a step too far for them to challenge the situation in Limerick Prison but if they are there to represent the interests of women then surely the safety of those prisoners should be on their agenda?

Heartening also to see Roisin tweet the Jenni Murray article.

Given the way things are moving I'm going to respond to the IHREC again and ask if I can target my services to 'women with a cervix'. This would purposely exclude any man who identifies as a woman.

@ForeverFaithless

Given the way things are moving I'm going to respond to the IHREC again and ask if I can target my services to 'women with a cervix'. This would purposely exclude any man who identifies as a woman.

Great idea!!!

I don't like that this excludes women who have had their cervix removed but it seems to be the only way not to get sued.

It may also exclude transmen but my understanding is that many would not be able to avail of acupuncture /reflexology /massage (possibly other alternative therapies) as taking medication can be seen as a serious contraindication to treatment.

Yep 3timeslucky, we have to make ourselves a thorn in their sides. I wonder if the newly formed women's groups will get affiliated/recognized by the NWCI?

@ForeverFaithless - Given the way things are moving I'm going to respond to the IHREC again and ask if I can target my services to 'women with a cervix'. This would purposely exclude any man who identifies as a woman.

I would target women, and others, with a cervix. The second comma is very important as it means women with a cervix and others with a cervix (you probably know that anyway but no harm pointing it out). That's assuming you don't have an issue treating transmen.

@OchonAgusOchonO according to the EA and the GRA, she cannot say women as that included transwomen in Ireland.

@Annasgirl - according to the EA and the GRA, she cannot say women as that included transwomen in Ireland.

That's why I included the carefully placed commas. Women, and others, with a cervix excludes women without a cervix, and so, would exclude transwomen. It would, however, include transmen.

[quote Annasgirl]@OchonAgusOchonO according to the EA and the GRA, she cannot say women as that included transwomen in Ireland.[/quote]
Not so sure you're right about that, Annasgirl. The ESA was updated following the GRA to add "transgender" as a gender, bringing the number of gender categories to 3: male, female, transgender person. I mentioned above that a legal eagle friend thinks that intimate care would be eligible for the embarrassment/dignity exemption on those grounds, but it will take a case to set the precedent.

I'd agree with your take if it were English law, where sex (male/female only) and gender reassignment are separate characteristics, but Irish law is very different to British law on that matter. We can't know for sure what's allowable under Irish law yet, not until the intimate care exemption is tested.

Saw that article in the times. That is heartening that it's getting some media coverage.

Interested to see Roisin Ingle retweeting that tweet as I'm nearly sure when I listened to her podcast when the repeal the 8th campaign was in full flow that she and other guests were very 'let's be inclusive' to everyone

@MarDhea - Not so sure you're right about that, Annasgirl. The ESA was updated following the GRA to add "transgender" as a gender, bringing the number of gender categories to 3: male, female, transgender person.

Unfortunately, the GRA actually changes a person's sex, so if a transwomen gets a GRC, they become a member of the female sex. Quite an amazing scientific achievement really.

Given you're not allowed ask for a person's GRC, it puts service providers in an impossible situation. Although you may be allowed ask for a birth cert as proof of your sex. You'd have to ask everyone though which would be a pain. And it wouldn't protect you from having to provide treatment to a transwomen with a GRC but without physical transition.

[quote OchonAgusOchonO]**@MarDhea* - Not so sure you're right about that, Annasgirl. The ESA was updated following the GRA to add "transgender" as a gender, bringing the number of gender categories to 3: male, female, transgender person.*

Unfortunately, the GRA actually changes a person's sex, so if a transwomen gets a GRC, they become a member of the female sex. Quite an amazing scientific achievement really.

Given you're not allowed ask for a person's GRC, it puts service providers in an impossible situation. Although you may be allowed ask for a birth cert as proof of your sex. You'd have to ask everyone though which would be a pain. And it wouldn't protect you from having to provide treatment to a transwomen with a GRC but without physical transition.[/quote]
That was my understanding of it too Ochon. Every lock and bolt was put in place to protect the feelings of trans people above all else.