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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunburying into Autumn (Bunbury 6)

999 replies

DianasLasso · 09/09/2020 13:08

Bit like blackberrying, with added derailment, sealioning and general JAQ-ing off. I'll copy and paste the opening post of the last thread.

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches gin

OP posts:
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TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 18/10/2020 09:53

Back in those days it wasn't so much "screw you, I'm doing this anyway" as "But don't you understand that my feelings are Real and Important and if they aren't accommodated you are dooming me to a life of crying in the corner? Doesn't anyone here in this place for/by/about women care about meeeeeee?'

It was very educational, not just in terms of what we were facing but also for the clues as to how we got here.

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 18/10/2020 10:27

Some of the views expressed here seem pretty hard-line when you are not used to them. It can be very jarring when you originally come from a not-so-informed, let's-all-be-nice position

Absolutely, even now something may jar and i have to look at why it jars...usually its because I’m being daft about something

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 18/10/2020 10:31

I'm genuinely mystified by women who wouldn't ordinarily take that 'what about meeee' stuff from a man giving it credence when an individual starts to have metaphysical (and also invariably sexist) beliefs about their inner essence

truly our inner Beryl and our desire to be perceived as nice is a impediment to equality

TyroBurningDownTheCloset · 18/10/2020 10:39

It was a different time. We've since had a great deal of discussion about relevant behaviour patterns and inter-sex dynamics; back then we weren't just hampered by the need to be polite but also by the fact that we couldn't have those conversations without them being merailed.

The sherpa wasn't given credence, exactly, it was more a case of everyone being too polite to state the obvious. Or at least that was the impression I got.

DeaconBoo · 18/10/2020 11:06

Dyou know, that post might've made me pause for a second until I recalled in detail the very idiosyncratic way that poster has of describing situations or literature that we are all privy to.

As they say, sometimes seeing 'arguments' laid out over time in a way that you can follow the train of thought and the underlying assumptions and use of language is really illuminating.

I have no problem in admitting I occasionally come across posts here - ostensibly on the GC "side" that are goady, reactive, rude, argumentative for the sake of it, assume bad faith, derail, and make negative assumptions. (Nowhere near as often as in other parts of this site, I hasten to add! ). I roll my eyes and move on and these posts are overwhelmingly drowned out with patient, reasoned, knowledgeable and informative posts. Of course I'm not going to agree or endorse everything posted here and it would be an extremely naive assumption that anyone would.

DeaconBoo · 18/10/2020 11:14

The single most eye-opening and concise example for me was Maria being forced to refer to her attacker in court using opposite-sex pronouns.

FloralBunting · 18/10/2020 11:16

Quite. I'll say it clearly - I don't endorse or agree with everything posted on FWR, let alone all of MN.

I'm always a little bit tickled by the notion that people genuinely come to FWR, read everything and are shocked by the hatred on here. It's kind of on a level with certain posters receiving dozens of private messages telling them to carry on sealioning because it so compelling or something.

The 'Sure, Jan' GIF is very appropriate, imagine I've inserted it here...

EdgeOfACoin · 18/10/2020 12:54

I have no problem in admitting I occasionally come across posts here - ostensibly on the GC "side" that are goady, reactive, rude, argumentative for the sake of it, assume bad faith, derail, and make negative assumptions

Yes. There is sometimes an issue with assuming bad faith. People new to these boards are not going to have any context, and it's not helpful when posters with genuine questions are jumped on immediately. I cringe when I see it.

FloralBunting · 18/10/2020 13:33

It's a febrile situation with a lot of factors, but the defensiveness is borne out of the despicable trolling and the modding policies. I know some of MNHQ view Bunbury as a troll hunt, but it's not, it's actually an idea to protect the women here from the defensiveness of troll hunting and being subsequently deleted for it, while also being honest that a number of people who post on FWR don't have women's rights uppermost in their priorities and giving women the courage to not feel they have to engage with every person who demands their attention.

InflamatoryWrit · 18/10/2020 16:31

And here we go again. I can't watch. I am going out to plant cabbages.

DialSquare · 18/10/2020 16:38

I've never engaged and I'm not going start now but it's bloody hard not to.

InflamatoryWrit · 18/10/2020 17:54

Gaaak! Cabbages planted, and kale. But I couldn't help myself and now I have let MN down, let Bunbury down, and worst of all I have let myself down (memories of a v funny schoolyard joke that included inflatables)

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 18/10/2020 18:08

Well thank goodness you did inflamatory

I had no idea What was going on but ive done a search now

RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 18/10/2020 18:14

But yeah

Bad bunny!

CaraDuneRedux · 18/10/2020 18:35

@InflamatoryWrit

Gaaak! Cabbages planted, and kale. But I couldn't help myself and now I have let MN down, let Bunbury down, and worst of all I have let myself down (memories of a v funny schoolyard joke that included inflatables)
Grin I remember that joke too!
Moonbasealpha · 18/10/2020 18:42

It looks pretty disgusting (low down on the Bristol stool chart), but seems to taste more palatable

Comes out the way it goes in? Still not exactly selling it.

Cocothefirst · 19/10/2020 18:35

I may have overstepped the mark on another thread. If I'm not here tomorrow it's been an absolute pleasure and privilege. ❤️

CaraDuneRedux · 19/10/2020 18:43

Salutations, Coco.

I hope this is not an ave atque vale in the manner of Ave imperator, morituri te salutant.

Cocothefirst · 19/10/2020 20:05
Grin
RufustheSniggeringReindeer · 19/10/2020 20:10

Coco

💐 fingers crossed you don’t disappear

ArabellaScott · 19/10/2020 20:29

Fingers crossed here, too, Coco.

I will drink a toast to you.

A cocktail of aqua vitae, truth serum and sunlight. It's very refreshing, and has the curious effect of making one less drunk the more one drinks. As if everything comes into clearer and clearer focus. And the ability to say no louder every time.

Just need to think of a name.

Winesalot · 19/10/2020 21:50

Some fabulous sunlight tonight isn't there?

FloralBunting · 19/10/2020 21:56

I do hope after the chat, MNHQ decide to reinstate the thread they've pulled with minimal deletion, even if they lock it. It was perfectly civil, and very constructive.

TinselAngel · 19/10/2020 21:58

Tyro has asked me to pass on that she has been suspended for a week.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 19/10/2020 21:59

i'm guessing that the person who'd made a twerp of themselves on that thread decided that they'd rather have history altered? although weirdly they then proceeded directly to another thread and made a twerp of themselves

strange times