Meet the Other Phone. Protection built in.

Meet the Other Phone.
Protection built in.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bunburying into Autumn (Bunbury 6)

999 replies

DianasLasso · 09/09/2020 13:08

Bit like blackberrying, with added derailment, sealioning and general JAQ-ing off. I'll copy and paste the opening post of the last thread.

The useful Bunbury Guide to Spotting Community Disruptors is constantly evolving.

The best research and advice is not to engage with community disruptors and trolls. As ever, if you suspect troll activity, report it to MNHQ.

Remember there are people out there who would like to silence us by fair means or foul.

This is a continuation of the Public Service Announcement thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3944572-Bunburys-guide-to-community-disruptors-part-5?pg=40

If and when you see threads plopped into FWR, especially a curious repeat of well worn topics, maybe check for poster history before engaging. AS is your friend.

There are a number of posts/posters/threads that are reproduced on Twitter or Facebook to foment controversy using screen shots & flagging to either MNHQ to have threads or posters deleted.. Sometimes, it’s used to approach commissioning editors with ideas for articles. It’s a tiresome tactic that we always have community disruptor posters who themselves post the comments that they then highlight elsewhere as purported evidence of racism, religious intolerance, anti-men sentiments, or transphobia.

Some helpful links can be found in the ‘Break it Down for me’ and ‘It never happens’ threads but in essence FermatsTheorem recommended “that in the absence of a block/hide poster button, I suggest the following strategy (given that you're talking to the lurkers).

Do not name check the sealion. Instead, respond to a depersonalised paraphrase:

"It is sometimes erroneously suggested that blah. Blah is wrong for the following reasons (short and pithy). If you need more information re. debunking blah, here's a link."

Then (this next step is important to combat derailment) go back up thread to the last useful contribution to the discussion, make sure you do name check that contributor, and pick up the discussion from that point.”

Go well Witches gin

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
Mammatino · 22/09/2020 23:16

Was it you? I didn’t check all the names.

TinselAngel · 22/09/2020 23:48

@FloralBunting

Deleted after becoming swiss cheese. Lots of accusations being flung from over in Twitter land.
Mmmmm cheese...
TinselAngel · 22/09/2020 23:50

@Delphinium20

I'm very passionate about egg donation as a dear friend when young and broke was very exploited to give hers up numerous times for money. 20 years on, she was infertile and ended up with ovarian cancer.

I had JUST taken a long time to write a very impassioned post...damn!!! Wasted time and lost voices.

I'm sorry we didn't get to hear that story so do post it elsewhere.
CaraDuneRedux · 23/09/2020 08:22

I'd just like to point out that mine was one of the comments the poster upthread singled out, entirely spuriously, and maliciously IMO, as being "homophobic," on the grounds that I had given a feminist analysis of surrogacy as involving "men exploiting women's reproductive labour."

The poster entirely incorrectly and groundlessly assumed that by "men" I meant "gay men". Which was a reading completely without any foundation whatsoever, and followed posts of mine explicitly saying I was against heterosexual couples using surrogates, and that I was in favour of gay adoption and knew gay couples who'd made excellent fathers of adopted children.

I'd be grateful if that poster would now withdraw that entirely incorrect and malicious claim.

But I don't suppose they will.

CaraDuneRedux · 23/09/2020 08:24

And Delphinium I'd be interested to hear about your friend's experience, if you can face starting a thread about it.

(I had IVF and came very close to ovarian hyperstimulation - it's not fun. And it did lead to all sorts of changes in the ways my ovaries behaved after - for instance, I started to have Mittelschmerz where I hadn't before. I keep a very close eye on them, and am absolutely paranoid about the risk of ovarian cancer. I console myself with the fact that I had short-protocol IVF rather than long protocol, which I think carries more risk as involves a chemically induced temporary menopause before ovarian stimulation.)

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 23/09/2020 12:00

I find it frustrating that certain issues where certain, high profile individuals, express wide reaching views (or behaviour) that are very damaging to women, this only can be discussed in the most general terms.

Some of the things we come across are so far away from reality that an abstract discussion almost seems hysterical and scaremongering.

I also find that the playing field is uneven if one side can make personal attacks and incite violence and the other not only have to consistently play nice, but also avoid calling out this very behaviour.

FloralBunting · 23/09/2020 12:02

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Winesalot · 23/09/2020 12:06

This reply has been deleted

Post references deleted post Talk Guidelines.

Cocothefirst · 23/09/2020 12:08

That individual was chucking out accusations of anti semitism to detractors when homophobia wasn't enough. Hmm.

Siablue · 23/09/2020 12:11

Well, that got deleted. But it does look like a certain person may have shown their sense of male entitlement and it is all over Twitter.

Angryresister · 23/09/2020 12:27

How can we discuss our preferences for HCP without deletion. I understand with mentioning someone, but the other thread went too. Ridiculous. Don’t do twitter so no idea what is being said. These issues are so important.

OvaHere · 23/09/2020 12:30

@CoffeeTeaChocolate

I find it frustrating that certain issues where certain, high profile individuals, express wide reaching views (or behaviour) that are very damaging to women, this only can be discussed in the most general terms.

Some of the things we come across are so far away from reality that an abstract discussion almost seems hysterical and scaremongering.

I also find that the playing field is uneven if one side can make personal attacks and incite violence and the other not only have to consistently play nice, but also avoid calling out this very behaviour.

Yes. I agree 100%.
Angryresister · 23/09/2020 12:31

Oooops, apologies, found it...

Winesalot · 23/09/2020 12:36

a certain person may have shown their sense of male entitlement and it is all over Twitter.

And I am sure that he will never be allowed to forget it. His credibility is even lower now.

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 23/09/2020 12:49

I am so angry this morning. I thought I had peaked before, but this is sinister.

We are not allowed to talk about specific examples about behaviours because that is transphobic (or homophobic even though many here are lesbians). We can only talk in general terms.

We are not allowed to discuss glaring inconsistencies in misogynistic arguments as this is a pile on or “mean”. We are only allowed to discuss this in general terms.

Simultaneously, we are being told that we have “rich fantasies” which do not correspond to reality, a reality we not are allowed to specify.

WTF

QuentinWinters · 23/09/2020 14:49

I know
As if being scared of "penises" is an irrational fear. Like they are disembodied entities floating around.
I always say this but if I'd been bitten by a dog as often as I've been assaulted by men, noone would say I was irrational to be scared of dogs. Yet fear of men penises is based on "rich fantasy" Angry

Cocothefirst · 24/09/2020 10:36

I'm enraged that a certain non-Mumsnet user is on Twitter attempting to stop women here talking about surrogacy in general terms. They can fuck right off.

Winesalot · 24/09/2020 12:20

They did try coco but to be fair, Justine did point out it was entirely reasonable that women discuss the topic as it was a parenting site and women have a right to discuss it. Generally of course....

fatblackcatspaw · 24/09/2020 12:44

thought... I'm thinking of becoming a premium member of Mumsnet as it occurs to me the less they are dependent on advertising revenues the more independently minded they can be.... what do others think?

ArabellaScott · 24/09/2020 12:44

it was entirely reasonable that women discuss the topic as it was a parenting site and women have a right to discuss it

Quite fucking right, we do. Is someone complaining that women are discussing things again?

CoffeeTeaChocolate · 24/09/2020 12:47

I can see the point of this non-Mumsnet user.

If uterus owners start to properly think about the issues around surrogacy, maybe fewer uterus owners will be available to give access to their uteruses for 9 months....

Kit19 · 24/09/2020 19:33

Ah I see ppl have started to arrive to tell us we’re wrong to think we’ve achieved anything at all

I sense merailing coming up

Mammatino · 24/09/2020 19:38

Yes Kit, get your cake recipes and cheese anecdotes ready.

Winesalot · 24/09/2020 21:31

Maybe. I have noticed some being ignored though.

FloralBunting · 24/09/2020 21:36

Why would we give a shit today, wims? This is all they have now. I won't be indulging any of it.