Funded by the US religious far right...

[LateSummerGarden]

My son has completely bought into the TRA agenda and firmly believes that UK based pro women organisations are funded by the US religious far right - which is the current metaphorical stick with which to beat his t*y mother - I should be careful of what I support apparently.

He's seen the accounts and the receipts online (apparently 🙄) although he couldn't find them to show me when he looked...

Is there anything irrefutable (preferably independent) i can show him to prove otherwise?

Thanks

Can't prove a negative. You can only nudge him to think differently.

Well can you ask him where my cheque is ?

If he were my son I would tell him that, as he's the one making the allegation, it's up to him to prove it.

Show him the ‘sponsors and supporters’ pages on stonewall, mermaids... websites.

There’s a piece that pops up on twitter on the big pharma companies (doesn’t a trans woman own one?) in the us who spend a lot of money on this arena.

Besides - there seems to be a thing in the US with the religious types preferring a trans child to having a gay one.

One of the things that always puzzles me with this accusation is, if it were true, why are so many women having to use Crowd Justice to raise money for court cases?

Painful isn't it. I agree it's up to him to show you, not you 'prove' otherwise.
In the UK this is very much a non party specific issue. Even though it's got more traction in right leaning media, it was a Conservative govt that instigated the review of the GRA.
There are indeed overlaps on this specific issue between the left and right (Communist party are clear on what a woman is).
The UK movement is not the same as the USA.
Maybe point out that most GC organisations are small and there's a lot of successful crowd funding.

Where’s my bloody money then??😆

Seriously though, he makes the accusation, he has to supply the proof! I’d just smile at him and say “I’m sure with all your abilities you’ll find them soon dear”

Turn off his WiFi - he can't use the internet properly!

Posters have made some good suggestions. Don't browbeat him but say to him that he makes the accusation, he has to supply the proof and it's up to him whether he goes looking or would prefer to take things on faith without checking.

Sow the seeds of doubt and let him mull over why, if he's saying something, he doesn't want to check whether it's true and what this might mean.

And don’t forget - ‘why would they lie?’ (‘They’ being the people who say this).

Turn off his WiFi - he can't use the internet properly!

🤣 it's tempting!

There is no showing seeds of doubt unfortunately. I don't brow beat him but he just digs his heels in further whenever I provide any 'evidence' of anything.

I sent him a couple of links to heartbreaking detransitioning stories. He replied with a link to an Independent article about a woman who changed her position after her nephew 'transitioned' - nothing of substance, just "be nice". I've asked him for evidence from just a single source of trans that doesn't rely on sexist stereotypes and, despite looking, he can't. So he's now latched onto the funding issue.

‘Prove it or shut up.’

But I’m quite rude. Ask him - who benefits from this? Who constantly says ‘no debate’ and tried to shit down all conversations with threats. Who manages to get businesses to change policy and sack staff on their say so - really powerless then? What happens when women’s groups complain or protest (nothing but threats). And why does this happen?

Why would women not want to fight/debate/discuss all this - or should they all just meekly accept and agree? Silly boy - he has no right to a say over women’s issues, he has no idea.

If he alleges that they are funding you, then they will of course be funding him, because I assume he is not independent yet. Therefore suggest that if he doesn't like the "far right" funding, he is free to leave at any time.

And don’t forget - ‘why would they lie?’ (‘They’ being the people who say this).

Lie?! Don't be ridiculous. 'They' are the most oppressed group. They' don't lie! 🙄

It's bigotted women who are duped into thinking the US religious far right are on our side who are lying. And too stupid to see that we are being manipulated in this way.

Or something like that...

Again: where's the evidence? What exactly is being funded?

And the whole 'I don't want to look/think about that because it interrupts me nicely believing in x' - oh get a fucking grip.

No patience for that kind of laziness and abnegation of responsibility at all in anyone past the age of eight. You might as well go around shouting the Tooth Fairy's real 'cos she is.

(And not you OP, just patience now gone with all this.)

Oppressed groups - again - big business support, flags and banners, a whole month (+++), companies with training (£££), people getting ‘cancelled’. Remind me again how it works because I’m confused.

Ask him how this stacks up with those with disabilities in society - how’s it all working out for their needs?

He needs a new hobbyhorse.

Ask him - who benefits from this? Who constantly says ‘no debate’ and tried to shit down all conversations with threats. Who manages to get businesses to change policy and sack staff on their say so - really powerless then? What happens when women’s groups complain or protest (nothing but threats). And why does this happen?

I have.

All he knows is that, if someone says they 'identify' as something, he is prepared to give them the benefit of the doubt but I'm old and closed minded.

Oh and they wouldn't have to issue threats if we werent trying to erase their identities.

He's got the TRA answer to everything.

Does he think
Dear alex Drummond is a woman just like you OP?

You could point out that his position - accepting something as a fact when he can produce no evidence - is the one that resembles a religion.

He is probably looking at US sites, and clearly, indisputably, Trump opposes trans rights so from that perspective, he will think that any narrative that isn't pro-unlimited trans rights is pro-Trump.

To understand the situation properly, he needs to free himself from a US-centric view and sources, and understand the concept of conflict of rights. Yes, trans people in the US are opposed by the far right, but so are women. It's not an either/or.

If it was my child, I would probably start by explaining that, because if he just reads a lot about Trumpian right-wing attacks on trans rights in the US, he'll just think you're being stupid or are really ill-informed or biased.

He needs to understand he's not wrong on that, but that women's rights are also under attack, and that some right-wing MRAs are using trans rights as a vehicle to attack women's rights. I'd also show him lots of examples of trans people who themselves are strongly on our side in the debate. So he can see it's not just you being a bigot, but that many trans people themselves do not find the onslaught on women's rights and the pushing of self-ID as helpful or in their own best interests.

Show him the many examples of high-profile left-wingers who are prominent examples of GC feminists, and ask if he thinks they have all suddenly become right wing.

And if none of that works, switch his internet off until his critical thinking skills have caught up with his surety of always being right!

And the whole 'I don't want to look/think about that because it interrupts me nicely believing in x' - oh get a fucking grip.

No patience for that kind of laziness and abnegation of responsibility at all in anyone past the age of eight. You might as well go around shouting the Tooth Fairy's real 'cos she is.

Is the basis of all my conversations with him on this matter.

The most frustrating thing is that indont think he actually believes any of it, he just feels its the right thing to champion.

He accepts that rights for women and ethnic minority groups have a long way to go and he accepts that thebadvancment of trans rights has far exceeded all other equal rights campaigns.

He can't quite make the connection though.

Or maybe he can but it doesnt sit right with the line he's supposed to toe...

He's at university too, which doesnt help 🙄

Does he think dear alex Drummond is a woman just like you OP?

• yes, if Alex Drummond says he is

And

• who is he to deny Alex Drummond's experience of Alex Drummond?

In terms of arguments, conversation starters and the like, you won't be able to give me anything I haven't already used which is why just wondered if there was something I could show him re the accounts that would that might cast doubt on other things he so firmly 'believes'.

Given that a large number of gender critical women are firmly from the left (e.g. Bea Campbell, Julie Bindel, Joan Smith, Kiri Tunks, Linda Bellos, Karen Ingala Smith and many more), how likely is it that they would be taking funding from American religious far right groups? It would make no sense.