Everyday Racism Instagram on "Karen"

[Mizzler]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpA-dlMjj_/?hl=en

I've been trying to learn more about race and racism since the BLM protest movement appeared and I'd been following this Instagram account as a way of trying to understand more about the issues involved.

This post has really troubled me though and I'm struggling to articulate why. I think it's because whilst I completely accept that black and minority ethnic women suffer great disadvantages in the UK, I'm very uncomfortable with the "Karen" meme. It strikes me as deeply misogynistic. In this post, they make reference to a "Karen" asking to speak to a manager as a way of asserting authority. Isn't that what women SHOULD be doing? Being assertive isn't the same as being aggressive, even if women behaving assertively is perceived as aggression by a patriarchal society.

I feel like I'm rambling here and I'd be very grateful for other people's thoughts.

Fucking hell that's what it meant?

Agree that's a really weird thing to write. I'm

Same. Plus 'racism adjacent' because I shared an article by Kenan Malik who had some mild criticism of BLM to make.

I find it astonishing when white people decide that black people have the wrong opinions on racism. The nerve!

Maybe share some of the info posted above by Nonnymouse with them?

I really think the WAP post was referring to the way of sending a picture electronically rather than the song.

The poster has been on MN for ages and hasn't posted anything like that from what I've seen.

I think people have got the wrong end of the stick assuming the poster was referring to the song in her post.

But that messaging system is not how anyone would say I'll send you a pic hence so many people were what does that mean.

In the context of the conversation and the way it was posted the obscene version makes no sense

I think it's more about the behaviour of the 'Karens' than the people pointing it out (albeit in a sneering way). There's definitely a type of middle class white woman who uses her privilege to belittle those 'below' her, and despite the distasteful memes I think it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet

Good point, I agree with this

The Karen meme is indefensible. And I don't care if its origins might have been by black people in relation to certain behaviour. It's still indefensible.

In the UK those women are unlikely to be called Karen though. So it's nonsensical.

Also if there's a problem with a behaviour then criticise the behaviour.

This goes further than going X group of people are like this (stereotyping) and applies an actual name, which then gets applied to random women irrespective of their actual behaviour.

Yeah.. it's not normal for women to offer to send pictures of their genitalia to strangers on the internet. Least not on a talkboard like this

Yeah - when you get called a man, or insinuating you're a man for your opinion because it's "not like a woman thinks"
then can see why they'd be like what do you want me to do, send a pic of my bits to prove ya?
Doesn't mean they actually would FFS lol

Of course it's racist to make generalisations about white women using stereotypes, or to say 'I've seen white women doing X'.

I agree, but would also point out that it's extremely common for feminists to make generalisations about white men, usually calling it 'class analysis'.

The Karen meme to me when it comes to racism is a thought provoking point - when I think of it used, it's referring to white woman using it as their privilege against others of colour - ie like when the dog walker in Central Park a few months ago (Amy, think she was called?) sickeningly used her white privilege against a bird watcher in the park going about his business.
It's a fair point and troubling (for want of a better word)
People using it to shut down women for just stating an opinion though, meh, they're irritating.

@Quaagars

Yeah.. it's not normal for women to offer to send pictures of their genitalia to strangers on the internet. Least not on a talkboard like this

Yeah - when you get called a man, or insinuating you're a man for your opinion because it's "not like a woman thinks"
then can see why they'd be like what do you want me to do, send a pic of my bits to prove ya?
Doesn't mean they actually would FFS lol

Thank you @Quaagars I am sick and tired of being called a man every time I fail to conform to some internet police woman what her conception of femininity is. You hit the nail on the head, what am I supposed to do to prove I’m a woman?

I am a biological, XX chromosome, Asian woman and mother.

But calling my sex into question is easier than addressing the fact they’re not comfortable that there is an archetype or meme for a rude, entitled and racist behaving woman. Why shouldn’t there be a name of Karen for such behaviour? We have a name for rude, entitled sexist men and it’s Dick.

WAP= Wireless Access Pt. I offered to send a picture over my WAP to doubter proving I’m a woman. Not the other thing. I’d not send a naked picture ever.

Funny you thought I was referring to can’t even write the words, in a song. I had not heard WAP used that way before and had to go look it up and it is a very profane and dirty song. But it’s sung by a woman is it not?

@NiceGerbil The point is that actual women called Karen are being harassed and ridiculed because of this. Some have even been told by their employers to change their name. Any phenomenon that's given a real person's name is bound to end up with people of that have receiving abuse. Anyway, most women called Karen are over 35-40 so it's deliberately used an older women's name. But there are a few younger women in their teens and 20s with that name too. Imagine how much bullying they're having to go through at school.

There's definitely a type of middle class white woman who uses her privilege to belittle those 'below' her

But there are far far more MEN who abuse their privilege and far far more MEN who are racist, violent, offensive, dismissive etc. It was not women who shipped black slaves around the world and for the most part, it is not female police officers who kill and injure black people.

The article quoted about cites a number of famous stories about females who were racist but ..

Women and black people were both denied the vote by white males.
It was two white males who battered Emmett Till to death and it was a group of white males who acquited them of murder.

Women who do insist on being heard and respected by calling the manager have often suffered years of being ignored, talked over, dismissed, silenced and they want to be respected and heard. It may well be that they are choosing to take put their power on people they consider to be lower in the pecking order than them because they have categorically failed to make themselves heard in their own circles.

However, we see this so much more in the male / female sphere where men, bullied at work, come home and beat their wives and children because they are not respected in their own circles. I witnessed this when I lived in Sri Lanka where the cast system is very strong. Yes there were women who abused their servants, but there were many many more women at all levels of society that were abused and silenced by men.

Karen is not an archetype.

It's imported US culture war nonsense. So very tired of people pretending the context in the US is standard.

meme for a rude, entitled and racist behaving woman.

There is a meme for middle aged, less privileged women with unfashionable haircuts who sometimes don't seem to do much other than exist and at other times refuse to accept poor service.

There's definitely a type of middle class white woman who uses her privilege to belittle those 'below' her
But there are far far more MEN who abuse their privilege and far far more MEN who are racist, violent, offensive, dismissive etc.

So there are more men that abuse their privilege and more men who are racist.
So what? Why the but? Does that mean we should never call out "white privilege racist behaviour fromwhite people if they're a woman?
Comes across very NAWALT! (Not all women are like that, and they're worse than us anyway!)
This is about white WOMEN. Not men.

and they're worse than us anyway

they meaning men just for clarity

You should all know that this film is being made, which is going to lead to even more bullying and harassment. www.tmz.com/2020/09/02/taryn-manning-karen-white-role-director-coke-daniels/

It was two white males who battered Emmett Till to death and it was a group of white males who acquited them of murder.

I read up on the Emmet Till case after reading about the Central Park incident.
In your talking about it, you have completely erased the white woman who called the police from if I remember correctly, said he'd offended/hurt her and he got lynched.
Turns out she'd made it up
That's the "Karen" here, and that's the behaviour that no-one is ever allowed to mention and it gets brought back to the men do it worse (just like on this thread)
It's all wrong

I'm currently living in the USA and it isn't white middle aged woman who are killing black men.

There are significant structural issues around race but the people holding the power are not middle aged women of any race.

It is a cheap, easy distraction to dump this issue on this group of women. Even if every single middle aged white women never spoke to a manager again the issues of systemic racism in the USA would be completely unresolved.
It is the pitting of two groups with very limited power against each other, while the powerful remain untouched.

@Quaagars

There's definitely a type of middle class white woman who uses her privilege to belittle those 'below' her But there are far far more MEN who abuse their privilege and far far more MEN who are racist, violent, offensive, dismissive etc.

So there are more men that abuse their privilege and more men who are racist.
So what? Why the but? Does that mean we should never call out "white privilege racist behaviour fromwhite people if they're a woman?
Comes across very NAWALT! (Not all women are like that, and they're worse than us anyway!)
This is about white WOMEN. Not men.

White American women.

White American women

Still women.

I am saying that making women the target of all the hatred and blame, shields men from having to take responsibility for their role in racism and hatred.

I am not saying that women are incapable of racism, I am saying that misogyny, fueled by the convenient Karen narrative, is allowing men to get away without taking their share of the responsibility.

Women who do insist on being heard and respected by calling the manager have often suffered years of being ignored, talked over, dismissed, silenced and they want to be respected and heard. It may well be that they are choosing to take put their power on people they consider to be lower in the pecking order than them because they have categorically failed to make themselves heard in their own circles.

This is the sort of shit attitude that gives feminists a shit name (along with the ones above about how men do it more )

Women don’t have a pass to be nasty and self entitled because they may have experienced sexism.

Do black men have the right to belittle white women because they’ve spent a lifetime Dealing with racism from people their colour?

The attitude that ‘karens’ have, using their privilege as a bat to beat down those they see as under them is behaviour that must be challenged. It’s sad that mumsnet seems to care far more about the use of a name and meme than the disgusting attitude these people have.

We all know some men are shit, we talk about it enough, doesn’t sit right with me that people are acting as if women should get a free pass and their own behaviour go unchallenged.