Everyday Racism Instagram on "Karen"

[Mizzler]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpA-dlMjj_/?hl=en

I've been trying to learn more about race and racism since the BLM protest movement appeared and I'd been following this Instagram account as a way of trying to understand more about the issues involved.

This post has really troubled me though and I'm struggling to articulate why. I think it's because whilst I completely accept that black and minority ethnic women suffer great disadvantages in the UK, I'm very uncomfortable with the "Karen" meme. It strikes me as deeply misogynistic. In this post, they make reference to a "Karen" asking to speak to a manager as a way of asserting authority. Isn't that what women SHOULD be doing? Being assertive isn't the same as being aggressive, even if women behaving assertively is perceived as aggression by a patriarchal society.

I feel like I'm rambling here and I'd be very grateful for other people's thoughts.

[TweeBree]

The only people I see still using 'Karen' are white misogynist men who are thrilled at having found a new way to openly attack women.

[NiceGerbil]

It's interesting.

There are a lot of different groups fighting for improved conditions. Laws/ opportunities/ access to education and power etc etc.

Of all of them, the women's movement is the one that finds it really hard to get traction, and things that have been won have to be continually protected, and meets a very large resistance, and a general attitude that the people (women) who care about this are awful, one way or another.

This Karen thing is yet another opportunity for people (often men) who consider themselves to be on the 'good' side an opportunity to put the boot into women.

Who is actually the biggest danger to black men and women in the USA or here? It's men isn't it.

[NiceGerbil]

As an aside this cultural steamrollering is really getting on my nerves.

Karen is not a name given to the same demographic as it seems to have been in the USA. It doesn't translate as well as being shit for all the reasons mentioned on this thread.

I've also seen threads with posters from the USA, here on a UK sure insisting that we change our language to fit their history etc.

Massive argument about fag (cigarette).
Massive argument about thug being a racist term.
Sure there have been more.

The odd thing is that even after 1000 posts saying, that's not what it means here. The usually lone USA poster is still insisting it has xyz connotations full stop and we in the UK must not use it.

This Karen thing is another but has been heartily adopted here because a lot of people just don't like women much especially older ones.

[kness]

I agree that whatever it originally meant in the USA, it hasn't translated well to the UK and is just a general sexist word now used to shut women up. Although I don't understand why people on MN keep saying it's a working class name. I totally disagree, I think it's a pretty universal name.

Please spare a thought for women actually called Karen, who are currently being harrassed and bullied online and in person, mainly in the USA but it's coming here a bit too. I've seen numerous discussions with people asking if they should change their names, it's got that bad over there.

[kness]

The only people I see still using 'Karen' are white misogynist men who are thrilled at having found a new way to openly attack women.

Yep.

[kness]

Look at this page and you can see what it's doing to women's self esteem. It's awful.

www.behindthename.com/name/karen-1/comments

[PlanDeRaccordement]

It’s problematic but not racist, similar to the “ok boomer” memes.

[NiceGerbil]

I don't think that anyone on the thread has claimed it's racist yet it's been said twice it's not.

Why is it coming up?

[SerenityNowwwww]

I’ve never seen it used on any woman who isn’t white.

[DidoLamenting]

@kness

The only people I see still using 'Karen' are white misogynist men who are thrilled at having found a new way to openly attack women.

Yep.

Really? I've seen it used on MN by women. I've seen it used by women on twitter.

[kness]

Really? I've seen it used on MN by women. I've seen it used by women on twitter.

Yes because they're trying to join in to be cool, not realising that they're participating in sexism and ageism in doing so. But I thought the main point being made above was really that men are just using it as an excuse to be sexist.

[kness]

@PlanDeRaccordement

It’s problematic but not racist, similar to the “ok boomer” memes.

As far as I know, there aren't any women called Boomer. Karen is an actual name for millions of women, and they're bearing the brunt of it now.

[woodhill]

@Yoshinori

To be honest, it’s a very Karen thing to oppose the Karen thing.

A Karen is a woman, typically middle aged, middle class and white who does any form the following:

• asks to see the manager as a way to belittle shop assistants just doing their jobs/ as a way to “report” shop assistants for not doing what they want
  

• reports BME people for doing ordinary things e.g. Permit Patty, the woman who reported a black girl for selling bottled water etc
  

• participated in racial microagressions e.g. touching black woman’s hair
  

• is an anti-vaccer
  

The idea that it’s racist is extremely laughable ! 😂

Claiming the Karen meme is a racist thing is ... a Karen move.

Don't all people need to complain about situations in certain circumstances, sometimes it is necessary

[PlanDeRaccordement]

There are also millions of men called “Dick” and they’ve been bearing the brunt of that trauma for decades. Don’t see the “don’t be a dick” being whined about so much.
Language evolves, who cares about Karens? I don’t.

[kness]

@PlanDeRaccordement

There are also millions of men called “Dick” and they’ve been bearing the brunt of that trauma for decades. Don’t see the “don’t be a dick” being whined about so much.
Language evolves, who cares about Karens? I don’t.

If you don't care about women then I'm not sure what you're doing here on a feminism board.

[growinggreyer]

There you are again Plan, showing that you are male through and through.

[worldweary45]

I know several Karen's guess how old I am 😂

They all say that this meme has had the effect of making them think twice before they say anything or comment online -about anything in a public forum -in one case it has totally silenced her as she no longer comments or tweets about anything

One is considering changing her name and another 2 don't use their own names anymore when making bookings for restaurants etc

As people say though, complaining about Karen is a very 'Karen' thing to do -so Karen's don't complain about it but they do suffer from it

It's a ridiculous situation that is understandably upsetting people

[Kantastic]

I care about Karens.

I don't care about MRAs. I don't care about their half-formed quasi-thoughts, their feelings, their mansplanations, their penises, or their barely literate posts on Mumsnet.

I don't know why there isn't an "Ignore Poster" function on this board.

[NiceGerbil]

Is plan male?

I didn't think so? I don't actually know.

The dick thing is a laughable comparison. Dick means penis. No one is saying don't be like Dick (stereotypical type of man).

Serenity, if you want to make an argument it's racist go ahead. I don't think you'll get much support though.

The argument is that it's sexist and ageist and in the UK classist.

[PlanDeRaccordement]

@growinggreyer

There you are again Plan, showing that you are male through and through.

Karen, I am a woman and mother of four DC. I’d send you a WAP pic to prove it but I’m not a dick.

(Moment If silence for all the poor Karen’s and Dicks who have unfortunate names, I know how that goes, I met a European woman whose name literally is “rotting rice bowl” in mandarin. )

[JellyFishSquish]

To be honest, it’s a very Karen thing to oppose the Karen thing.

Wrong in so many ways. Utterly baffling. I...can't even.

And no my name is not Karen, it's Jelly

[SheepandCow]

I agree completely with @SerenityNowwwww

It's absolutely misogynistic and ageist and, in the UK at least, classist. And yes, actually it is racist. People can't help being white. It's not a choice.

It's certainly very much become an anti middle aged women thing. There's many young racists, there's many male racists (in fact, far right organisations are dominated by men) yet somehow a name common for middle aged working class women had become ^the^ word to use?

Regardless of anything else, it's deeply deeply nasty to use a common name as an insult. How horrible for all the women called Karen.

[Tartyflette]

Telling someone not to be a dick is really not the same at all as telling someone not to be a Dick.
The two terms are generally not conflated - proper noun Dick with a capital D is just short for Richard, common noun dick is one slang term among many for penis. It can also refer to a private detective, (private dick) and a know-all, (a clever dick).
And let's not forget delicious spotted dick, which in 'English' English, carries no penile connotations.
It can't be compared with the Karen meme which is, in the UK at least, is a deliberate attempt to put down assertive women. It's absolutely sexist in a way that the term dick is not. Women can be, and are, are called dicks too!

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

A Karen is a woman, typically middle aged, middle class and white and therefore beneath contempt.
Thanks for being quite so clear, Yoshinori.

[thinkingaboutLangCleg]

There are also millions of men called “Dick” and they’ve been bearing the brunt of that trauma for decades.
I doubt if any man has the name "Dick" on his birth certificate. Men called Richard can choose the nickname Dick, or Dickie, or Rick, or Rickie, or Rich. Women called Karen have few options.