Everyday Racism Instagram on "Karen"

[Mizzler]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpA-dlMjj_/?hl=en

I've been trying to learn more about race and racism since the BLM protest movement appeared and I'd been following this Instagram account as a way of trying to understand more about the issues involved.

This post has really troubled me though and I'm struggling to articulate why. I think it's because whilst I completely accept that black and minority ethnic women suffer great disadvantages in the UK, I'm very uncomfortable with the "Karen" meme. It strikes me as deeply misogynistic. In this post, they make reference to a "Karen" asking to speak to a manager as a way of asserting authority. Isn't that what women SHOULD be doing? Being assertive isn't the same as being aggressive, even if women behaving assertively is perceived as aggression by a patriarchal society.

I feel like I'm rambling here and I'd be very grateful for other people's thoughts.

[NearlyGranny]

Yup. Shift the blame, label a group, wash your hands.

I've been called boomer, Karen and TERF in one sitting by a millennial I brought into the world with much blood and pain...😕

[RufustheSniggeringReindeer]

nearly

Yeah two of mine (jokingly) called me a karen...they won’t be doing that again

Feel very sorry for actual karens and for those in pictures/photos that random strangers are using because they think its ‘Funny’

Such a mean thing to do, bullying behaviour

[MangoFeverDream]

The fact it expanded two hundred years later to also mean a penis just makes it worse and longer lived than Karen

But, but ... think of the menz 🙄

[CivilCervix]

@SinisterBumFacedCat

This is the kind of misogynistic drivel out there. Older women out on holiday being happy and enjoying themselves. Shock horror! Quick, insult them as much as you can.

There you have it in a nutshell. Man thinks older women are worthless and beneath contempt, indeed likens them to animals, uses fashionable 'woke me meme as a ruse for blatant misogyny and no doubt gets virtual pats on the back for it. It's the same old sexism given legitimacy by so called progressives.

[BovaryX]

Some of the most fanatical adherents of the Robespierre faction are some of the palest, most privileged people on the planet. This mob wants to force these Washington DC diners to obediently perform the correct political hand gesture. This isn't a political movement. Its adherents operate like a totalitarian cult with ugly historical resonance.

www.businessinsider.com/white-protesters-confront-diners-during-black-lives-matter-protest-2020-8

[SheepandCow]

Irs actually very dangerous.
It's all very well for the white middle class woke to incite hatred from the safe distance of their rural shires. There's a very real risk of this spilling over into violence against poor (underprivileged) white working class women, particularly those who are middle-aged and older and living in disadvantaged diverse urban areas.

In relatively recent history, women in the UK were quite literally the property of men. Their fathers and then husbsnds (brothers or other male relatives, if unmarried). Women had very little say in public affairs. If there's any systemic racism (and I know it's now heresy but I dislike identity politics), it's not down to women.

[SheepandCow]

The calls to defund the police.
Vulnerable black and white people, especially women (like victims of rape and DA) will be the ones to suffer.
The rich woke will of course hide behind their gated estates protected by private security.

[BovaryX]

@SheepandCow

The calls to defund the police.
Vulnerable black and white people, especially women (like victims of rape and DA) will be the ones to suffer.
The rich woke will of course hide behind their gated estates protected by private security.

Absolutely. The Portland Mayor Ted Wheeler is moving because the peaceful demonstrators have been burning things at the entrance to his apartment block. This will not affect those with the money to retreat from the destruction.

[Plussizejumpsuit]

I can't see the insta post for some reason. I literally just had an experience where I asked to speak to the manager and wasn't sure if I should. But I felt I'd be humiliated and kind of accused of trying to steal through self check out. I will often be more forgiving of women or poc. In part I felt like I shouldn't speak to someone about it. But then I also felt as a youngish women it's not ok for someone to argue with me in front of other customers. So I was aware of my power in the situation and I think that's important. I actually felt quite shaken up by it.

I think each situation should be a assessed and we should think about whether it is just about having superiority challenged or if it is something which really isn't ok.

I do think women should assert themselves but I wonder if the Karen meme is about women who already have the most social power using it when they are slightly inconvenienced. I do think it's interesting it's a female meme though. When yes I do see middle ages white women being twats but I see way more men being selfish.

[Frazzled13]

I really agree with the line in the Helen Lewis article where she says "Karen has become synonymous with woman among those who consider woman an insult."

Sometimes when people say "shut up, Karen" what they basically mean is "shut up, woman"

[SweetGrapes]

As a BAME women, to me, it's just a socially approved (for some) way of saying STFU bitch
Completely misogynistic, ageist and racist.

[NotTerfNorCis]

I had to look up what that meant. Can't imagine a woman writing that somehow

This makes me laugh.
How is a woman supposed to write, to think?

Yeah.. it's not normal for women to offer to send pictures of their genitalia to strangers on the internet. Least not on a talkboard like this.

[TheRealMcKennaDonsTinfoilHat]

[quote BovaryX]Some of the most fanatical adherents of the Robespierre faction are some of the palest, most privileged people on the planet. This mob wants to force these Washington DC diners to obediently perform the correct political hand gesture. This isn't a political movement. Its adherents operate like a totalitarian cult with ugly historical resonance.

www.businessinsider.com/white-protesters-confront-diners-during-black-lives-matter-protest-2020-8[/quote]
Exactly. It is demanded that everyone shows solidarity towards this ‘movement’. Anyone who points in the direction of the ‘aims’ of this organisation and says that they disagree with them is then told that there is no ‘official’ organisations and it’s just a loose affiliation of grassroots groups. Well, sorry, but I have no intention of showing solidarity towards any movement when I have no idea what its offficial aims actually are. Would anyone in their right minds?

Who tends to suffer most when law and order breaks down? Did anyone see that recent footage from the NYC subway of the man attempting to rape a woman on the platform? Will defunding the police make this more or less likely?

[Hiremee]

I don’t think it’s the sort of thing you’re supposed to take so seriously.
Let’s be honest; there is a demographic of predominantly white women who think they are above all else, usually they have money and they don’t like not getting what they want from those they see themselves as superior too - e.g shop assistants, people of colour, waitresses.
This is just a word to describe that sort of self entitled woman.
There’s plenty of men that do it too, I tend to just see them called arseholes but I doubt they’d be so wound up if that changed to ‘ken’ instead.

[Pelleas]

'Karen' is just male-shorthand for 'too old to fuck'.

How dare we middle-aged women take up space on the planet once we are past our sell-by date?

Get your 'Karen' insults in quickly, fellas, just in case someone thinks you might fancy a middle-aged woman, because of course any man who fancies a middle-aged woman must be pretty worthless himself.

[RufustheSniggeringReindeer]

Let’s be honest; there is a demographic of predominantly white people who think they are above all else, usually they have money and they don’t like not getting what they want from those they see themselves as superior too - e.g shop assistants, people of colour, waitresses

For once people is more apt...its not so much the insult in my opinion than the use of an actual name

[RufustheSniggeringReindeer]

Bold fail

Let’s be honest; there is a demographic of predominantly white PEOPLE who think they are above all else, usually they have money and they don’t like not getting what they want from those they see themselves as superior too - e.g shop assistants, people of colour, waitresses

[HelloToMyKitty]

I think it's more about the behaviour of the 'Karens' than the people pointing it out (albeit in a sneering way). There's definitely a type of middle class white woman who uses her privilege to belittle those 'below' her, and despite the distasteful memes I think it shouldn't be brushed under the carpet

Karen is not really a middle-class name in the English sense, more of just a popular name
among woman of a certain age. No class connotation although wouldn’t be common among African-American women.

“Karen” started as a way for BAME people in the US to fight back against racist middle class aggressive people, absolutely

That’s not how it started. It was a meme for a long time among customer service folk, then a byword for that annoying middle-aged woman in your office. It has only recently spread into the mainstream and took on racial overtones after Central Park Karen (before, it was mostly teenage/young redditors/4chan types in customer service using the term, I guess you could say white and Asian-American (as in East Asian) as that is the Reddit demographic.

[CivilCervix]

There’s plenty of men that do it too, I tend to just see them called arseholes but I doubt they’d be so wound up if that changed to ‘ken’ instead.

'Calm down dear'

[BovaryX]

Exactly. It is demanded that everyone shows solidarity towards this ‘movement’. Anyone who points in the direction of the ‘aims’ of this organisation and says that they disagree with them is then told that there is no ‘official’ organisations and it’s just a loose affiliation of grassroots groups. Well, sorry, but I have no intention of showing solidarity towards any movement when I have no idea what its offficial aims actually are. Would anyone in their right minds?

The Washington DC footage is quite incredible. The demands that people submit to this movement are quite chilling. Politics in a democracy means everyone has the right to dissent, to support the opposition, to criticise the party they support and its rivals. But this has more in common with a hunt for heresy than anything else. As for 'defund the police' there are people standing in front of their burning businesses crying while CNN calls this 'mostly peaceful.' As you say, what happens when there are no cops?

[ShootsFruitsAndLeaves]

Of course it's racist to make generalisations about white women using stereotypes, or to say 'I've seen white women doing X'.

This is racist just as it would be if you made generalisations about black people and used stereotypical black names for that behaviour.

[NiceGerbil]

I have a Ken in my family I wouldn't be at all happy if his name became synonymous with total arsehole.

[SunsetBeetch]

WAP stands for 'wet ass pussy', and is a reference to this song:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4001526-WAP-song-with-Cardi-B-slow-hand-clap-for-lib-feminism

It's not that the post was 'unladylike', it's that it was fuxking bizarre. Who says that to another woman???

[BlackWaveComing]

@NearlyGranny

Yup. Shift the blame, label a group, wash your hands.

I've been called boomer, Karen and TERF in one sitting by a millennial I brought into the world with much blood and pain...😕

Same. Plus 'racism adjacent' because I shared an article by Kenan Malik who had some mild criticism of BLM to make.

Luckily, every single Gen X friend I have is terven, and thinks Karen, when used outside the US by white blokes and white enbies and white whoever else, is just ironic capitulation to American cultural imperialism AND sexist AND ageist.

[BlackWaveComing]

@SunsetBeetch

WAP stands for 'wet ass pussy', and is a reference to this song:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4001526-WAP-song-with-Cardi-B-slow-hand-clap-for-lib-feminism

It's not that the post was 'unladylike', it's that it was fuxking bizarre. Who says that to another woman???

It was not 'in the spirit' and I found it vaguely intimidatory.