Everyday Racism Instagram on "Karen"

[Mizzler]

https://www.instagram.com/p/CEpA-dlMjj_/?hl=en

I've been trying to learn more about race and racism since the BLM protest movement appeared and I'd been following this Instagram account as a way of trying to understand more about the issues involved.

This post has really troubled me though and I'm struggling to articulate why. I think it's because whilst I completely accept that black and minority ethnic women suffer great disadvantages in the UK, I'm very uncomfortable with the "Karen" meme. It strikes me as deeply misogynistic. In this post, they make reference to a "Karen" asking to speak to a manager as a way of asserting authority. Isn't that what women SHOULD be doing? Being assertive isn't the same as being aggressive, even if women behaving assertively is perceived as aggression by a patriarchal society.

I feel like I'm rambling here and I'd be very grateful for other people's thoughts.

[Pluckedpencil]

I find it particularly galling that the black lives matter movement stemmed from the heinous actions of a white male establishment figure, yet the anger and prejudice has been redirected to a white middle class "straw woman" called Karen. It just goes to show how deeply ingrained is the patriarchy!!

[remainin]

Karen as a meme has passed its peak. The more attention we give it, the longer it will live on.

[queenofknives]

[quote kness]Look at this page and you can see what it's doing to women's self esteem. It's awful.

www.behindthename.com/name/karen-1/comments[/quote]
That's awful. Women are talking about how depressed and even suicidal it's making them, that they don't want to meet people because they'll have to tell them their name. FFS. It's just misogyny and it's horrible.

[Gwynfluff]

Call out the racism but not by creating what rapidly became a hugely sexist labelling of all middle aged (white) women who voiced any sort of opinion. It appears to be in wider usage than gammon, and the US 'Chad' (though think that's a younger person) hasn't gained traction in the UK yet.

But Karen did. Why did Karen gain traction? And why did women, outside of institutional cultures, carry the can for everyday racist attitudes? Where was the male equivalent?

I'm not into fighting racist stereotyoing and microagression by picking up another stereotype and microaggression. I want to do something purposeful.

[NonnyMouse1337]

Hello, I have not read the full thread, and I apologise for the derail from the Karen discussions, but the OP mentioned at the start trying to learn more about race and racism since the BLM movement kicked off.

May I ask if the OP has read or watched any material that is not supportive of Critical Race Theory? A lot of the current mainstream discourse around racism pushes a very specific ideological narrative. People from ethnic minorities are very varied in their opinions and ideas, just like anyone else, and there are those who disagree with the popular and more trendy narratives. A number of them are increasingly concerned by the underlying assumptions and directions being taken by movements such as BLM and the implications this has on common shared values in our society based on enlightenment principles.

A lot of people on the left or liberal side like to talk about 'uplifting' or 'centering' the voices of black people and other minorities. However, this only applies to those minorities who toe a very specific ideological line. Those who don't are at best ignored or at worst targeted in various ways or even called some awful names.

In the interest of learning about racism, I've found it helpful to read the views of those people of colour who are often ignored by current trends, even if I might not agree with all of their political leanings. I'll list a few below.

The Equiano Project has been recently started by Inaya Folarin Iman. She explains why she did so.

Not specifically related to the above discussions, but a more broader look at the topic.

I also like to read quotes by Thomas Sowell on Twitter.

There is a lot more out there, but hopefully the above gives you, and anyone lurking, a starting point for more nuanced discussions.

[Abraid2]

@NiceGerbil

As an aside this cultural steamrollering is really getting on my nerves.

Karen is not a name given to the same demographic as it seems to have been in the USA. It doesn't translate as well as being shit for all the reasons mentioned on this thread.

I've also seen threads with posters from the USA, here on a UK sure insisting that we change our language to fit their history etc.

Massive argument about fag (cigarette).
Massive argument about thug being a racist term.
Sure there have been more.

The odd thing is that even after 1000 posts saying, that's not what it means here. The usually lone USA poster is still insisting it has xyz connotations full stop and we in the UK must not use it.

This Karen thing is another but has been heartily adopted here because a lot of people just don't like women much especially older ones.

This is an old and depressing issue. 15 years ago I read something on a southern baptist website complaining about C S Lewis’s use of the noun ‘ass’, meaning a donkey-like animal, in a children’s book.

Although the book was written in the 1950s, the writer insisted that Lewis should have known it would be conflated with the American spelling of arse. The book was therefore anti-Christian.

I thought this was funny when I first read it. Now it was clearly predicting something more sinister.

[SerenityNowwwww]

We are becoming very ‘americanised’ with pretty negative things. I blame social media myself...

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

Middle aged and older women are already invisible , once we stop being viewed as sexually attractive (useful) to men. Silencing older women just cements this. Young women who laugh along and join in will find themselves being called a Karen and told to shut up in 10/20 years time.

If you are served undercooked chicken in a restaurant are you supposed to sit quietly, eat up and get food poisoning, just because you are a middle aged woman, whereas a younger woman or a man could? When women are continuously fobbed off when trying to get medical help/diagnosis for gynae/menopause symptoms (how long on average to diagnose endometriosis? 7 years?) is just being told “this is just something menopausal women complain about” (which I was told for chronic pain by several drs), how does silencing the voices of sick, fucked off older women really help?

[SerenityNowwwww]

One of the joys of getting older is the lack of shits given.

Whereas my younger self would meekly take the veggie burger with a slice of bacon and peel it off, maybe nibble the bun and leave the rest. 50 year old me would ask the eating staff to replace it with the veggie burger ex meat as requested, thank you.

Younger me would blush and scurry away if a man yelled at me in the street. 50 year old me will square up to them and dare them to repeat it or tell them to ‘f-off’ (or my usual default ‘you f-ing what??????’).

Younger me would pretend not to see someone in my group drop litter. 50 year old me would tell them that they had dropped something and pint them in the direction of a bin.

Younger me would pretend not to hear sexist, racist and agist comments. 50 year old me calls them out (most times).

Age + experience + having/rearing kids = no shits given. And people (Men) really don’t like that when you aren’t pert and pretty.

[DidoLamenting]

@NiceGerbil

The dick thing is so weak it's laughable.

As is the suggestion that white people in the UK are systematically oppressed due to their race

White people are not systematically oppressed in the UK but it is nonsense to say that something can't be racist just because it affects white people. If an act or a meme is designed to belittle one group of people just because of their ethnicity then it is racist.

It's the same sort of nonsense as saying it's impossible to be sexist against men.

[BovaryX]

A lot of people on the left or liberal side like to talk about 'uplifting' or 'centering' the voices of black people and other minorities. However, this only applies to those minorities who toe a very specific ideological line. Those who don't are at best ignored or at worst targeted in various ways or even called some awful names

Well said nonny. The treatment of Priti Patel is a case in point. Some of the most fanatical adherents of this new religion are some of the palest, most privileged people on the planet. John McWhorter has a great piece in the Atlantic about the quasi religious fervour of the 'woke' movement and its grim historical echoes.

[BovaryX]

www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/09/academics-are-really-really-worried-about-their-freedom/615724/

[Socrates11]

Karen's don't let it bother you too much if possible. If the worse insult someone's got is...your name, well, they're not going to win a battle of wits are they, it's a bit feeble really.

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

Age + experience + having/rearing kids = no shits given. And people (Men) really don’t like that when you aren’t pert and pretty.

I think I’d like this printed on a t shirt, or maybe a cross stitch pattern! Fabulous post.

[JadesRollerDisco]

I think Karen is a bit like 'TERF' in that is something used against middle aged women to shut them up from having a voice that either opposes anything. I can't or a word said with that much vitriol about men. It's used to shut women up. Because nobody wants to be a Karen, or a TERF, or whatever. We aren't meant to question sexism. We are allowed to get upset about race and trans issues (well at least for m2f) these are hot topic issues. We aren't allowed to question issues which effect female bodied people/ women. So black feminism and trans issues (when they are f2m). Basically we can change the world so long as it still favours Male privilege. Male privilege is the systemic problem, it is the roots. The rest of our societal issues are just the weeds. Do we keep plucking the weeds out? Or do we go for the roots?

[EDSGFC]

@OneEpisode

So PlanDeRaccordement disagrees with another mner, growing on a thread where the majority of posters agree Karen is being used as an insult, so Plan writes:
Karen, I am a woman and mother of four DC. I’d send you a WAP pic to prove it but I’m not a dick.

That is almost criminal harassment, surely? The WAP (genitals) picture, I mean? Though the Karen reference was clearly intended to offend the poster too..

Isn't WAP some form of sending images via a mobile phone or something? I'm pretty sure one of my earlier mobiles was WAP enabled (and I mean years before this song) though I can't really remember what it was.

[Ereshkigalangcleg]

Isn't WAP some form of sending images via a mobile phone or something? I'm pretty sure one of my earlier mobiles was WAP enabled (and I mean years before this song) though I can't really remember what it was.

Yes it was a late 90s/early 2000s thing. The first mobile "internet", but any pages had to be built in Wireless Application Protocol, hence "WAP". So not many companies used it and it didn't really take off in the way mobile companies hoped it would.

[EDSGFC]

@learieonthewildmoor

Whenever someone tries to tell me that ‘Karen’ isn’t sexist, I ask what’s the name we call men who are white middle class etc; and what does their hair look like?

Online I've seen almost a family tree of names - Karen and Richard are middle aged, Becky and Chad are the Gen Z version.

Clearly spending way too much time on line.

[TheRealMcKennaDonsTinfoilHat]

I think Karen is a bit like 'TERF' in that is something used against middle aged women to shut them up from having a voice that either opposes anything.

These are terms used by ‘progressives’ to insult anyone who refuses to bow to their idea of how someone they deem ‘should’ be an ally to their cause should behave. Their isn’t an equivalent for white, straight, middle class men because they’re not expected to ally themselves to other groups who are perceived as opposes send as fellow travellers.

The ‘progressives’ love throwing racist terms at people who don’t ‘behave’ as well. I’ve lost count of the number of ‘progressives’ I’ve seen calling people cns recently. They’re also fond of lumping all people who disagree with them into one basket as well - as if they can only hold one opinion if it’s not the ‘right’ one. For instance, all black women who don’t support BLM must be just like Candace Owens. It’s like saying that Julia Hartley Brewer must hold exactly the same opinions as Julie Bindel because she doesn’t believe men should be in women’s prisons.

Judging and classifying people on their identity groups is doing such a great job of improving equality at the moment isn’t it?

[Quaagars]

On the fence with "Karen" - as someone who is white, middle aged woman myself, it can be annoying if you're making a fair enough point/opinion and someone "alright, Karen!" you as a joke.
Er, no!
It's mildly irritating though - the Dick comparison I can kind of see, as if somebody is being an idiot, you'd call them a Dick - "he's a right dick!"

I had to look up what that meant. Can't imagine a woman writing that somehow

This makes me laugh.
How is a woman supposed to write, to think? Was it not ladylike enough of the poster for you?
Complaining about someone being stereotypical and then being stereotypical yourself is a don't say it don't say it don't say it

such a thing to do.


Just my sense of humour before anyone gets their knickers in a twist
(hope that wasn't too unladylike a comment either)

[Vermeil]

Honestly, it’s just example #1357 of ‘why woke people are terrible hypocrites’.
I’m seeing more and more examples at the moment. I had a fun opportunity to poke the wasps nest the other day, when a video of a supposedly racist incident between a white woman and a black man was posted by someone of my acquaintance on FB who’s a bit of a middle aged dudebro. Various other dudebros happily joined in with the ‘isn’t she a disgusting racist bitch’ comments, even though she was perfectly calm and decent and the man involved just hurled deeply sexist insults at her. I made mention of him being a disgusting misogynist and...complete silence. Huh.
This is why I’ve given up on the current pathetic display of what passes for popular progressive thinking, I just can’t abide the double standards, hypocrisy, and sheer hatred that swims just under its empathetic, kind, right-on surface.
Both sides of the political divide are packed with nastiness.

[SerenityNowwwww]

@SinisterBumFacedCat

Age + experience + having/rearing kids = no shits given. And people (Men) really don’t like that when you aren’t pert and pretty.

I think I’d like this printed on a t shirt, or maybe a cross stitch pattern! Fabulous post.

Maybe part in the front and part in the back 😉

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

This is the kind of misogynistic drivel out there. Older women out on holiday being happy and enjoying themselves. Shock horror! Quick, insult them as much as you can.

[kness]

@Socrates11 Women called Karen are experiencing problems at work. They're losing clients and having colleagues say they can't take them seriously. Please read the article I linked to earlier.

[AlexisCarringtonColbyDexter]

The whole 'Karen' thing is simply yet another way of people that people can be misogynistic under the guise of seeming 'progressive'

Yup I agree. I fail to see how memes calling karen a "cunt"- of which there are many, addresses issues of racism. Its just another misogynistic trend to attack women of a certain age.

Considering the fact that historical racism, the slave trade, oppressive regimes, and genocide were ALL fcking driven, instigated and put in place by MEN, it utterly baffles me why middle aged women are now the target yet there is no universal meme for racist white men. Think about why that is....