Nigella Lawson - another disappointment

[Kit19]

Any celebrity who thinks we should all just be kiiiiinddd

Take them at their word., if they believe they are a women then they are.

That's ridiculous. What do you believe a woman is then in that case?

Are we talking 'shifting constellations' and 'formless' again here?

Because there is nothing to disagree with. Take them at their word., if they believe they are a women then they are. Disagreeing is saying they are a lair, it's not an opinion what they are or not.

So, you think people should be indulged in whatever beliefs they hold. Does that work for other things too? If a person "believes" they're disabled should the state take them at their word and give them disability benefits?

@RedtreesRedtrees

Well I’ve definitely changed my views. I didn’t realise until now that trans people are all sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity and whose sole aim in life is to again access to our lavatories. I’m off to buy some box sets of JKR books and return my latest purchases from Lush.

Not all men are sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity, but we still don't allow any of them into women's spaces, what's your point?

Well I’ve definitely changed my views. I didn’t realise until now that trans people are all sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity and whose sole aim in life is to again access to our lavatories. I’m off to buy some box sets of JKR books and return my latest purchases from Lush.

Feel free to engage with and respond to the points raised here.

Take them at their word., if they believe they are a women then they are.

I believe that everything you own is mine. When can we meet so you can pass it over?

If a woman can be accidentally born in a man’s body, can she be surgically removed from the erroneous body and put in a more appropriate body? What bit would need to be removed? What would the vital womanly bit be? (Presumably not the brain because it’ll have all those erroneous male cells). And who does the man’s body belong to?

I wish espresso had told us. It sounds like a new frontier in biology.

Well I’ve definitely changed my views. I didn’t realise until now that trans people are all sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity and whose sole aim in life is to again access to our lavatories.

Jesus, another one with the comprehension of an average banana.

MEN have already taken advantage of the very glaring loopholes. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT TRANSWOMEN ARE PREDATORS.

If you could read that very slowly to fully grasp the patronising tone I'm taking, I'd really appreciate it. 👏

@rabbitwoman

Kindness should be rebranded.

It is an earnt intimacy, only for people who have proven that they won't take advantage or manipulate you.

For everyone else - be polite, be considerate, don't be a dick. But you don't have to be kind to complete strangers....

I love this @rabbitwoman. This is what we should teach our kids.

@EdgeOfACoin

Well I’ve definitely changed my views. I didn’t realise until now that trans people are all sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity and whose sole aim in life is to again access to our lavatories. I’m off to buy some box sets of JKR books and return my latest purchases from Lush.

Feel free to engage with and respond to the points raised here.

I've asked Redtrees their opinion on the women and girls (many from ethnic minorities) who will be excluded from female single sex spaces if they are opened up to males on a previous thread. Yet to receive a response.

@yourhairiswinterfire but I agree with you. Fully signed up GC here. Is there a list somewhere of places I should boycott? If not perhaps we could start one?

@RedtreesRedtrees

Well I’ve definitely changed my views. I didn’t realise until now that trans people are all sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity and whose sole aim in life is to again access to our lavatories. I’m off to buy some box sets of JKR books and return my latest purchases from Lush.

Let's make everything unisex!

Most men are lovely and so are most women.

Let's do away with child safeguarding too. Most adults are lovely and most children are safe.

@TorkTorkBam that doesn’t sound sensible. Men are all dangerous. They really hate us too.

MEN have already taken advantage of the very glaring loopholes. NO ONE HAS SAID THAT TRANSWOMEN ARE PREDATORS.

Some transwomen are predators, just as some men are predators and even some women.

But men are more likely to be predators than women are, so we keep all men out of women's spaces, not just the bad ones, because we can't tell which are the bad ones and which ones aren't.

We also can't tell the difference between a transwoman and a man who is pretending to be a transwoman. So we keep all males out no matter how they identify, even if it makes some of them a bit sad.

Fully signed up GC here.

Well obviously you aren't, because gender critical feminists don't believe that 'trans people are all sexual predators determined to attack us at the first opportunity'

Indeed Tork!

Let’s let everyone do whatever they like because most ppl are nice. That’s how this works right?

[quote RedtreesRedtrees]@yourhairiswinterfire but I agree with you. Fully signed up GC here. Is there a list somewhere of places I should boycott? If not perhaps we could start one?[/quote]
That's good to hear. Your employees can now come out as GC without any fear of retribution from you.

@RedtreesRedtrees ha ha, you are like soooo witty and clever! Really showing up those MNetters!

Oh wait....

Definitely @DialSquare

Take them at their word., if they believe they are a women then they are. Disagreeing is saying they are a lair, it's not an opinion what they are or not.

So in the words of last week's Sunday Times article, you would like me to pretend to believe things I know not to be true?

There is no problem whatsoever in someone dressing, naming, defining themselves however they choose, and living however they choose. The problem comes when their actions impinge on and disadvantage other people. I see another poster has already asked, but what would you suggest doing with all the female people who would have no provisions, at all, including health care, refuges, public toilets etc, in order that some males may take their preferred choice from all the provisions?

You're saying you care about people and their individual feelings and needs, so what happens to them?

I don't know why I'm saying 'would have', this is already happening to real women.

Look on the threads where female people have stayed in dangerous homes with their abuser or lived rough because they have no access to female only refuges and cannot access a mixed sex one. No one's being kind to them.

Look on the thread where the Muslim lady is trying to explain to her local council that now the local park is gender neutral loos only, she no longer has access to any public toilet.

Look on the thread where women who live in and have lived in refuges met with refuge management to explain their needs and the severity of their distress over mixed sex provisions, and ended up in tears because no one cared or heard them, and later the managers denied they even existed when reporting proudly that no women had ever said they minded.

Real women. Now. Happening. In a town near you. Where's the kindness?

By SweetEspresso's logic, Fionne Orlander (a trans woman) and Buck Angel (a trans man) are bigots because they accept that they still remain the sex they were born and disagree with the current trans ideology.

But those kind of trans people don't count apparently, (wrong kind of trans, you see) and get slurred with vile terms just as women do.

I know non-gc people lurk on these boards. I know that sometimes these posts are harvested for screenshots.

And yet the supporters of gender ideology never truly engage with the arguments. I've not seen anyone on fwr defend the right to put kids on puberty blockers or the fairness of Fallon Fox breaking Tamika Brents' skull in an MMA match. No one ever addresses the issue of women from religious backgrounds having to share single-sex spaces with male-bodied people. No one ever explains what characteristics are shared by all transwomen and women that are not also shared by men and transmen.

How many women have to be sexually assaulted or by transwomen in prison before it is a considered a problem? Six? Thirty? One hundred? Why is that number not zero?

Everywhere else on Mumsnet fiery debates rage on every subject imaginable. On this board I see extremely good arguments on one side and total silence on the other side. Sometimes there is an admonition to not be hateful, a little bit of sarcasm and an emoji thrown in.

If the other side has such good arguments - where are they?

If the other side has such good arguments - where are they?

Or they come along like sweetespresso and bleat at women to be kind as that’s all they’ve really got.

If you’re not kind and believe every man that tells you he’s a woman then you’re a nasty bigot. It’s absolutely laughable.

@SweetEspresso

Are you aware trans women offend at the same rate and offence type as men*? Male violence is male and doesn’t change with gender identity.

That’s from U.K. convictions and doesn’t include the large number of male offenders who have self identified as women once they realised their are perks to be had.

I’m at as much risk of violence or sexual assault from a trans woman as I am from a man.

And because it apparently needs to be said not all males are violent, not all trans women are violent. But a significant proportion are.

*if you look at the stats actually slightly higher than the average man.

@EdgeOfACoin

I know non-gc people lurk on these boards. I know that sometimes these posts are harvested for screenshots.

And yet the supporters of gender ideology never truly engage with the arguments. I've not seen anyone on fwr defend the right to put kids on puberty blockers or the fairness of Fallon Fox breaking Tamika Brents' skull in an MMA match. No one ever addresses the issue of women from religious backgrounds having to share single-sex spaces with male-bodied people. No one ever explains what characteristics are shared by all transwomen and women that are not also shared by men and transmen.

How many women have to be sexually assaulted or by transwomen in prison before it is a considered a problem? Six? Thirty? One hundred? Why is that number not zero?

Everywhere else on Mumsnet fiery debates rage on every subject imaginable. On this board I see extremely good arguments on one side and total silence on the other side. Sometimes there is an admonition to not be hateful, a little bit of sarcasm and an emoji thrown in.

If the other side has such good arguments - where are they?

This is so true!

They are always lurking because they are always posting about MN on Twitter so come on, bring on the actual arguments!