Dads get PND apparently

[Cabinfever10]

am watching a BBC news article right now claiming that he had PND 🤬 hes set up a charity for men with PND.
I'm disgusted with them what else will they try to steal from us

What he means is he has just discovered that he doesn't really want kids, his life has changed beyond anything he has ever imagined and his wifes tits no longer belong to him.
This apparently is "PND".

They could at least give it a different name - as men will not experience the crashing rollercoaster of hormones.
It's not the same!

its exactly reactions like this that discourage men from coming forward with mental health conditions! no they don't experience hormones but that doesn't mean mens feelings are any less important than womens ffs

Yep and it's soo much harder for them than us as they also get perinatal depression too. As someone who gets perinatal depression with pregnancy this has really pushed my buttons.
The charity is called PANDAS Foundation

My ex claimed he had PND. Funnily enough it was an excuse for him to do nothing all day, not help out with the baby at all, but he was still fine to go out partying every weekend

Unbelievable, isn't it?

It's more a case of men can't handle no longer being the centre of attention... my wife/partner is more interested in the baby than she is in me... I'm not getting sex on demand... she's tired and looks like shit... she's put on weight... I am being expected to step up and take responsibility... she's expecting me to actually help with looking after the baby...

Men like this can just FUCK OFF.

I agree calling it PND or perinatal depression is a step too far, I do think that men's mental health should be taken seriously and why wouldn't a time of immense change, such as pregnancy and a newborn, be a catalyst for a new dad?

That's not excusing the shit dads, the ones who will use any excuse to avoid responsibility, remember there are decent men who suffer in silence because of attitudes like the ones shown here.

My DP had a huge mental health crisis shortly after our DS was born. It was absolutely triggered by becoming a father and the things it brought up for him about his own childhood (which was fairly horrific).

He would never refer to this as him having PND. He didn't grow and birth a baby and have the huge physical, mental and hormonal changes that I did. He knows it was all to do with becoming a father but he doesn't try and claim it was PND.

It's just insulting.

I work with couples who are new parents and although it's not as common some men do suffer depression after their baby arrives. PND is not only hormonal it can be a grieving process due to the massive life change and men have that too. Maybe we need a different name for it. I have also known lots of men with trauma from a bad birth. There is a lot of awful birth experience out there these days with long term fall out for both parents. A massive feminist issue that not enough is being said about.

I’m glad I’m not the only one fuming 😤 fucking Beeb!
I wanted to slap those men into next month. ‘I don’t know who I am anymore.’ ‘Not getting the attention.’ I read that as how the mother should feel. I had very little sympathy for them, especially the guy who was on his fourth dc 🤦🏼‍♀️ He needed a biology lesson or the snip.

Doctors can only formally diagnose you with a perinatal mental health problem if you are pregnant or have given birth to a child in the past year.
The NCT and the NHS describe Postnatal Depression and Perinatal MH issues as being experienced by women that have given birth. The enormous impact on the female body of creating a new human being (and then popping it out and keeping it alive) should never be underestimated.

Partners can experience MH conditions but they are not PND and therefore driven by a specific physical/hormonal cause and it is wrong and confusing to call it that. It is not about men's feeling not being as important - men's MH is equally important - but it is not helpful in so many ways to ascribe a female only condition to men.

Calling it PND is perhaps not right but I don’t see the need to ridicule men for having a mental health issue. As a PP said having a baby is a huge upheaval and feeling overwhelmed and depressed by that doesn’t necessarily mean he’s a shit dad. Anything that encourages men to open up about their feelings and struggles is a positive imo, it’s the patriarchy that tells them to “man up” in the first place

My DH couldn't cope for a little while after DS came along.

I get the issue with the name, but, it is good to recognise men can experience poor mental, at the time of becoming a father.

Sorry should read poor mental health.

Men can get reactive depression/anxiety due to a new child triggering experiences from their own childhood, but I strongly disagree with the assertion that it is "PND".

The immense change that having a baby brings about can trigger depression in new fathers, as well as mothers. Yes, women experience the hormonal changes associated with giving birth, but there are a number of studies which suggest that fathers experience smaller, albeit significant hormonal changes too when their child is born. Given that OED defines post-natal as 'Relating to or denoting the period after childbirth', I don't have a problem with describing what men experience as post natal depression. Call it Male PND if you wish. The fact is that such a life changing event can trigger depression in men, and depression does kill. So rather than quibbling about the semantics, I think for the sake of all families, fathers, mothers, and children, we should maybe focus more on making sure that anyone who experiences depression after the birth of a child is able to seek help, and not face stigma.

I had PND and men cannot claim to be suffering from the same illness, my GP told me mine was caused by the hormonal changes after having the baby. Men do not have the same female hormones. I was so angry watching the fathers talking about their issues, the father of my children had a lot to put up with helping me with the illness and even went to the GP to see if he could do anything to help me, he was told just to be there. He told me it helped him talking to the GP. I get it some fathers might find it difficult adjusting after the baby arrives but it is NOT PND.

I do think it should have a different name but don't be so dismissive of mens mental health. Mental health should not be a them Vs us issue.
Mental health difficulties can be triggered by a multitude of difficulties including significant life changes such as having a child - not the same as hormonal based changes following actual child birth but still mental health difficulties.

Mental health issues are often brought on by huge life changes eg moving house or a new job. I can’t imagine many life changes which aren’t more significant than having children. Yes being pregnant, giving birth, dealing with the physical and mental changes on the body and usually being the primary carer is fucking hard and lots of women struggle and many develop PND and other mental health issues but that doesn’t mean becoming a parents doesn’t effect men. Not talking about mental health is part of toxic masculinity and so this initiative which challenges toxic culture of strong men I think it can only be a positive thing for women.

I agree that to call bunch it all under PND is not right.

It should be handled distinctly, because the challenges a man experiences pre, during and post birth are different.

Responsibility for bills, becoming a father and what that means, examining their own relationships, which change dramatically with a child, societal expectations of being a provider when your in a precarious financial situation, loss of freedom,

Women, for all the shit of actually going through it, do actually get a modicum of understanding - men are left to get on with it to a large extent or are blamed/shamed when they find it difficult.

I don't think poor mental health should be a competition, but I reckon it will help more people to have a dialogue of " yes, life has changed dramatically - get help here"

There is already a mental health term - adjustment disorder.

@bg21

its exactly reactions like this that discourage men from coming forward with mental health conditions! no they don't experience hormones but that doesn't mean mens feelings are any less important than womens ffs

Yes! 👍

Given that OED defines post-natal as 'Relating to or denoting the period after childbirth', I don't have a problem with describing what men experience as post natal depression.
I can't see it on the OED but the other online dictionaries (Collins etc) define it as a condition suffered by women who have given birth. The trouble with referring to a 'fatherhood onset/ triggering/witnessing a birth' related depression suffered by men as Postnatal depression is along the same lines as the TWAW discussion (ie. having the concept of female females and male females). The diagnosis, treatment and monitoring for PND suffered by women will by its nature be different to the diagnosis, treatment and monitoring for men so it is highly detrimental to the treatment of either to call it that. There is a risk for PND (as suffered by women) to develop into Post partum psychosis which could be deadly so the importance of appropriate monitoring can be quite high.

Men can become depressed after the birth of a child, and it can have nothing to do with no longer getting attention/sex. Perhaps it’s not postnatal depression but it definitely is a mental health problem.

They could at least give it a different name - as men will not experience the crashing rollercoaster of hormones.

Agree. Of course lack of sleep and a massive life change can trigger depression in men. However, confusing the terms is not helpful and trivialises both PND in women and depression in new fathers.