Dads get PND apparently

[Cabinfever10]

am watching a BBC news article right now claiming that he had PND 🤬 hes set up a charity for men with PND.
I'm disgusted with them what else will they try to steal from us

I wouldn't call it PND but DH does currently have mental health problems triggered by my current pregnancy. It just stirred a lot of old hurt up in him regarding our previous losses, stillborn and his own neglectful childhood. That doesn't mean that it's hormones that did this, but his struggles are very real (and he is seeing a therapist for them). He realises that he can't bury his head in the samd anymore, he needs to deal with this so is putting the effort in to get better.

The issue is with NHS, GPs etc. They call it PND, they diagnose it as PND.
That's what the men get told they have , so that's what they talk about if/when they do talk about it.

I would fully support a campaign to change the name.

I don't support pretending that some men's mental health can't possibly be affected by the birth of a baby .

@Cabinfever10

am watching a BBC news article right now claiming that he had PND 🤬 hes set up a charity for men with PND. I'm disgusted with them what else will they try to steal from us

Pull the stick out your arse

It's not a new things either, so nothing to do with trans or being woke.

Isn't this a bit 'Invisible Man'. Yes men may experience some negative mental health issues, but they are not the same as PND which is condition linked to giving birth. It requires different specific research into cause and treatments. Just as male suicide needs to be studied as a socio/medical phenomenon. A support group for people suffering from PND would fail both men and women.

blaming him is a bit ‘shooting the messenger’. I have only read/met one man who set up a male PND charity, or helps run one. He is pretty aggressive in how he phrases his fb posts. Women have, apparently, blocked men from getting help by suggesting PND is a female hormonal issue.

If you try to discuss the different triggers, suggest the root cause won't be the same, that the treatment would be different, he gets very angry and blocks you. He's much the same in real life, from the one occasion I met him at a networking meeting. Everyone in the room thought he was a lovely, passionate and caring man until he panhandled everyone and loudly shamed those who did not donate.

He was quite rude when told he couldn't fund raise within the meeting too! What was the ficking point of it if he couldn't take our money? - to parapharse him a little.

So yes, I am shooting that particular mesenger.

@Imnobody4 precisely!

I don't know anyone who would deny that men are affected by many isses, or that they need to be rid of restrictions of toxic masculinity. But they won't get very far if they won't or can't name their issues as male issues, as and when they are distinct from female issues.

It's the reverse of the Invisible Woman. It needs to be fought and corrected for the same reasons!

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@Imnobody4 precisely!

I don't know anyone who would deny that men are affected by many isses, or that they need to be rid of restrictions of toxic masculinity. But they won't get very far if they won't or can't name their issues as male issues, as and when they are distinct from female issues.

It's the reverse of the Invisible Woman. It needs to be fought and corrected for the same reasons![/quote]
At the moment they can't because that's what the medical profession calls it and what they get diagnosed with.

And if they're met with "oh no you don't! Stop trying to make this about you! Stop trying to take PND away from us! You have nothing to be depressed about! Only women get PND" it's actually very counterintuitive to a discussion about causes, effects, treatment and the problems that stem for it being named PND.

Anyone who claims that post natal illnesses such as severe depression and psychosis are not hormonal is talking nonsense. I speak as someone who suffered two horrifically frightening episodes of psychosis. Both came on so rapidly it was as though a switch had been thrown - I realise now that it was my menstrual cycle kicking in again. I had a long history of PMT/PMDD and the postnatal illness was the same sort of thing but much worse.

Men don’t get this.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble So? Women just nod and smile and men carry on being hard pressed to change any element of toxic masculinity?

I suspect my point bypassed you! It needs a root and branch rethink... maybe starting with the NHS"

I think the resistance is coming from people who wish to reserve the right to judge in as negative light as possible potential men whose actions may be cast in an entirely new light should there be valid genuine medical reasons.

I am heartened to see many are open minded, and hearted enough to care about men’s emotional welfare. In return I very much care about yours too!

[quote CuriousaboutSamphire]@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble So? Women just nod and smile and men carry on being hard pressed to change any element of toxic masculinity?

I suspect my point bypassed you! It needs a root and branch rethink... maybe starting with the NHS"[/quote]
Maybe it did, I'm not sure yet.

I'm just saying that there is a middle ground between smiling, nodding and going along with it and "how very dare you?".

They dare because that's what they're told by the NHS, by professionals, by charities etc.

Do I think women should just roll over and accept it? No.
Do I think think women should fix this? No.
Do I think women should acknowledge that it is a problem , explain why it's not PND and encourage the men in their lives to seek help, a proper name for the condition and have it recognised as a male issue? Possibly,yes.

ATM, the NHS(well healthcare services world wide really) are taking the easy way out. So are possibly the men as they're not offered an alternative.

It's not PND, it's sleep deprivation and an expectation gap.

I think a new term should be used to differentiate between the women giving birth and the parent not giving birth. It goes without saying that the other parent, male or female btw, could suffer depression at the changes in their lives. It is not the same as the woman giving birth so it needs a different category.

Absolutely agree. It doesn't help anyone when two groups of people with two different conditions are mixed up together.

The easiest way to stop the anger from women who are upset about men being described as having PND would be to call it something else. I'd imagine that would also encourage many men to come forward and admit they are struggling with mental health - I can see that many men wouldn't want to say they are struggling with what most people think of as a female health issue.

It's just silly to call it PND, unimaginative and actually doesn't give enough importance to the real issues men may face.

(and also non-birthing female partners / wives too).

New baby parental depression? Could apply to non-birthing men or women?

@bg21

its exactly reactions like this that discourage men from coming forward with mental health conditions! no they don't experience hormones but that doesn't mean mens feelings are any less important than womens ffs

Yes. This.

Well.. I think there is a huge amount of men who experience some sort of ptsd Once they become dads. Having a vulnerable child under your responsibility brings out your emotions about how you were treated as a child.

And I personally think there is strong correlation between ptsd and pnd.

True story, I’m a mum, but I felt I experienced a heavy dose of ptsd after birth.

I do find this threAd unhelpful.

Men are not meant to be discouraged from being honest about their feelings just so we can have the focus on us. That’s rediculous..

Women who give birth will experience reproductive hormonal fluctuations that the father will not.

Most people think of PND as a mother's experience, one that most likely involves female hormones to some extent, and there's no reason to change that.

At a time when people are pushing hard for broad acceptance that men can get pregnant and men can have periods, etc. it's best to keep as much for women exclusively as possible IMO.

Men are perfectly capable of starting their own groups and coming up with their own names for things.

PND is not really caused by female hormones. Hormones are a contributing factor only. Doctors will say it’s “only” hormones in an effort to comfort sufferers agonising over what is wrong with them and to reassure them depression can pass in time. The fact is any major life event can trigger depression in any person and that includes the birth of a child. Therefore, men can get depression as a result of the birth of a child.

So, in the case of PND = PostNatal Depression. Or depression caused by the birth of your child. Having a special name for this specific depression caused by childbirth actually has roots in sexist misogyny. The idea that only women are of weak mind and having a baby can only send mothers round the bend, but not fathers. It’s literally the modern day term for “hysteria”- or mental illness caused by a woman’s womb.

So personally, I’d like to see the name of PND struck entirely from medical terms and our way of thinking of childbirth as a trigger for depression in women or men.

PANDAS are actually a great charity who really helped me with my antenatal anxiety. I have certainly seen men who seem to experience depression when their babies are born, and I don't think it minimises women's experiences to say so. It's also now been proved that men experience an oxytocin rush when babies are born/carrying out primary care giver tasks like nappy changes). Stands to reason that they can also experience some downs as well as the ups! I agree with PP that there's a reason men don't come forward with MH concerns and have higher rates of suicides...!

It's like the phrase "We are pregnant". Just piss off.

The fact is any major life event can trigger depression in any person and that includes the birth of a child.

Ignoring the effect of hormones is as bad as writing off depression as just hormones.

Any major life event can trigger depression, but giving birth is a specific medical event, and it isn’t helpful to pretend otherwise.

So personally, I’d like to see the name of PND struck entirely from medical terms and our way of thinking of childbirth as a trigger for depression in women or men. Yep! I can't imagine why anyone would have an issue with that!

Caroline CPs book has shoine a bright light upon a whole can of worms in almost all aspects of life. One thing I took from it, and hearing her speak, is that whilst it is women who have long born the brunt of this in every walk of life, there are so many places where precisely because of misogyny men have beem disdvantaged in others. And it is not acceptable, no matter who it is that suffers.

It isn't that women are blocking men from accessing help, it is eons of toxic masculinity, the other face of patriarchy, that does that. Men need to decide to fix it, women cannot do that for them! Nor can women stand back and let men dismantle womens facilities in order to get their fix. That way takes back into more Invisible Women, as research will, again, become more male oriented.

Yet again there are paramount reasons for some things being single sex! That was always the case, for both males and females!